Imported kiln dry logs ?

[ash_smith123]

Organic food in the UK is certified by one of a few organisations though, so you at least have some idea what organic means.

 

 

 

I would also be curious to know what say Trading Standards would say about "Seasoned Wood" being sold that's 30% mc when I would have thought the average buyer would view it as 25% or less?

 

 

I get what your saying but my point was organic as a word has a very wide spectrum.

 

Why would a customer view it as 25% or less? I advertise it an average of 30%. It clearly states it in the description on my website. I don't think a customer has ever asked me "why do you say your seasoned is an average of 30% when seasoned in 25%".

 

If I was advertising it as 25% or less and it was 30% then I would have a problem but I'm advertising it at an average of 30%.

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

HETAS say 25% or less is seasoned. Above 25% m/c is not. End of.

[Paul in the woods]

When you apply the word organic to goods in the UK it has a legal meaning, so you can't define it yourself. I could not sell organic potatoes and then say I use Roundup on them for example.

 

In the same way I would have thought selling 'seasoned' logs would mean something, a quick google suggests <25% or even <20% if kiln dried. I've no idea if 'seasoned' has any legal meaning but if it does then I wouldn't have thought you can redefine it yourself.

[ash_smith123]

HETAS say 25% or less is seasoned. Above 25% m/c is not. End of.

 

 

No it doesn't, it says 25% or less is preferable to use in stoves?

Im not HETAS/Woodsure registered so I don't have to stick to their guidelines.

Like I've said I give my customers 2 options, one that is under 20% moisture and one that is an average of 30% moisture. it doesn't matter what I call the 2 products I have advertised them for what they are. It's upto the customer to determine what they want to order. If they think they 100% need firewood that is advertised to be under 25% moisture they can either go for our kiln dried option or try somewhere else.

 

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

No it doesn't, it says 25% or less is preferable to use in stoves?

Im not HETAS/Woodsure registered so I don't have to stick to their guidelines.

Like I've said I give my customers 2 options, one that is under 20% moisture and one that is an average of 30% moisture. it doesn't matter what I call the 2 products I have advertised them for what they are. It's upto the customer to determine what they want to order. If they think they 100% need firewood that is advertised to be under 25% moisture they can either go for our kiln dried option or try somewhere else.

 

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If you're HETAS certified, there is an achievable standard to meet that dictates mc, branchwood %, log size and so on. Sure you don't have to comply with it, I do though and I suggest that flogging 30% as "seasoned" is BS. Just call it unseasoned or part-seasoned.

[ash_smith123]

But £120 a cube is too expensive for it to be a (financially) sustainable fuel source for anyone. Heating oil at 39.4 pence (the present price for local delivery here on Boilerjuice.com) is 2.5 times cheaper per kwh. I don't think that firewood usage will become a realistic alternative to fossil fuels until prices come down.

 

 

 

I also don't think that kiln operation is financially viable without RHI or unusual circumstances. I would fall into the latter category, running a sawmill I have more offcuts than I know what to do with and have a biomass boiler. I still think it's nonsense to burn firewood to dry firewood in a process that nature would do for you with a bit of patience!

 

 

 

I have a firewood processor and intend to push bulk loads of softwood this winter. Minimum 30 cube, delivered locally £33 a cube. Two guys, 16 hours work, profit £350 without me doing the work. I make some money and the customer gets a good deal.

 

 

It's too expensive to be the only heat source for people but I would say 98% of my customers don't use it as a primary source of heating. They are room heaters so people don't mind paying the premium 1-3 cubic metres a year. There's no sign of the wood burner craze dying down either. All the stove installers around here are flatout. There's probably 8 in a 20 mile radius of me, then another 10/15 in Cardiff all flatout fitting stoves to people who just use it the odd night and on weekends. My main target customer isn't someone who has Woodfuel and a primary source.

But even the people who rely on it for their main source of heating don't think ahead. I have domestic RHI customers that ring me asking for a delivery in the middle of winter when they have just put the last log in the boiler, it doesn't matter how many times I tell them "ring me when you get down to half a cubic metre" it doesn't work.

 

Why don't you think a kiln option is viable without RHI? I've just broken it all down for you over 1500 cubic metre and a kiln model was £75k per year up??

 

So your happy to put your "offcuts" that could easily be processed into logs and sold into your biomass boiler but you still think it's nonsense why I would process softwood "firewood" to burn in mine?..... you do realise they are exactly the same thing?!?

[axehaircut]

I think it's a great idea to market a spring-early summer promotion selling green/part seasoned firewood for customers (will do it again myself this year). Explain the deal and benefits. Let them make up their own minds, bit of cash flow to help things along. Educating, making some bucks and slowly showing the "Norwegian way"

Ash smith I can understand your point but I'm curious as if you could also sell 30% and sub 25% air dried as a separate category? IMO 30% is part seasoned.

Would three categories/price points not give you a possible larger market?

I'm in the process of building a solar kiln for lumber but may throw in some 4 foot split firewood lengths and market them if there's space from time to time. (Made a small solar kiln a few years back and it worked ok, but going bigger and different design this time)

General point being more options, simple defined explanations of products, educational for the public and making money.

[Logsnstuff]

It's called marketing! I have 2 products, one I call seasoned that is an average of 30% moisture and one kiln dried that's all under 20% moisture. They both go in the kiln and just come out at different times. I'm not fooling anyone because I'm telling them exactly what they are getting. Doesn't matter if i call it seasoned and kiln dried or red wood and blue wood. But for the kiln dried I charge £25 per cubic metre more so why wouldn't I split the 2 products and charge more, It's just good business.

 

if it's 30% it's not seasoned has to be under 25% but both are kiln dried. this is the kind of bad marketing that is extremely annoying and gets emails sent to trading standards

[ash_smith123]

If you're HETAS certified, there is an achievable standard to meet that dictates mc, branchwood %, log size and so on. Sure you don't have to comply with it, I do though and I suggest that flogging 30% as "seasoned" is BS. Just call it unseasoned or part-seasoned.

 

 

But who states I can't sell it as "seasoned"?

It's not unseasoned because it's been dried. The outside is usually 10-15% and the inside is usually 26-30%.

Tell me the definition of part seasoned? Only been drying for 6 months?

I've read a million times that to season wood properly you have to leave it for at least a year. Well I have had oak that's still been 50% inside after a year so can I sell that as seasoned because it's been left for a year?

 

Also this average 30% seasoned stuff I have in my stove is rubbish.... [emoji849] no heat out of it at all...

[AHPP]

Are you from the Isle of Man? That would explain a lot.