Mr. Ed

Fascinating conversation BJ & RH. I see no discussion of conifer harvesting practice - clearfell versus continuous cover. As you know BJ the sight of apocalyptic clearfell sites is one of the reasons for the increasing hostility to conifer plantations. I suspect you’ll say that the costs of CCF management are unsustainable, to which I’d say that is an example of short-termism - just the sort of behaviour that leads to quarterly corporate targets rather than long term plans. I found the life of Talis Kalnar inspiring as an example of combining commerce and environmental concerns, and I’ve been running (or trying to run) an old family firm (in a completely different field) in that sort of way, finding the sweet spot between the two demands. You mentioned German beech sales - I have no idea why so many things are so expensive here! Also, BJ, many of your points are predicated on the assumption that importing softwood is wrong. Are you sure that’s the case? Why not import spruce from areas where it belongs? Britain has been importing timber from the Baltic since the 18th century. To make a ludicrous comparison - we could cultivate our own citrus if we built and heated miles of greenhouses. Sorry for butting in - I’m an interested outsider trying to learn about this world.

We have an orchard to rebuild up by the house. Kerry pippins is first on the list. And doubtless true about the frost lower down - there’s a reasonable sized river there as well.

“Acid brown earth and lithosol” or so I’m told. Underlying sandstone, which on the steep hillside is sort of shattered to make this “lithosol” business. As to the height of the cables I’m not sure, but at the top of the hill it’s probably 15 metres or so ...

We’ve had some nice recommendations from our local tree nursery of Arbutus, CrabApple and alder buckthorn. I’ve got away from the coppicing element of the plan, but as low or slow growing things these are local and with a high environmental value. Not that we have the time to do anything now! many thanks for the thoughtful conversation, all.

Oh, and great idea about the field maple too - it would feel right at home among the sycamores as well . . . Teagasc wouldn't even notice!

Thanks - and there is lots of hazel there already so it's happy as Larry in the neighbourhood. How many peas does one man need though?

That’s a lovely idea - would it work on a steep north facing valley side? This photo gives an idea of the landscape - it gets steeper at the top. We’ve been looking at Service and Spindles

I will get on to the electric company and find out what their cycle is. A meadow sounds nice but I fear it would be a bramble meadow within months. Sadly the land is too steep, too far from the house, and too north facing for veggie patch. Dwarf trees is what we need... I should have said we’re in SW Ireland so the choice of natives is a little more constrained than in the UK.

Thank you guys. I now have the modest ambition to sneak the lovely word "adventitious" into everyday conversation! Hornbeam sounds interesting. I'm going to have to check the height limit that the Electrick Company specify: photos from the webnet seem to show a tree with a not terribly tall habit, which would be useful.

Morning all I have a question that sounds a little stupid, and may indeed be so. Be kind to me - I am a beginner. We have a bit of steep land which was planted with sycamore (yes I know) about 20 years ago and then had a power cable run over it. So every n years (we have only been here a year) the electric company sends down some amiable tree surgeons who knock everything down. What they cut down is so skinny that it doesn’t even seem worth gathering. Can anyone think of a tree for this sort of coppicing that will grow short and thick and therefore need less regular knocking down, and when knocked down would have the potential to provide some firewood, or have a particular environmental value? Thanks in advance for any ideas.

OR: A corpse is often the start of a crime novel, A spinster resolves the crime by estabishing that the brake circuit was cut in the Carr. A thicket is the local policeman

"Margaret, are you grieving over Golden Grove unleaving . . ."

Do you mind a naïve question from an incomer to this world? Is the business model that you charge for the felling and stacking and the landowner sells the wood? Or has someone already bought the timber standing and you're working for him? And is all that timber headed for firewood now, or is there a market for sawlogs with this ash glut going on? I'm old enough not to be embarrassed by asking stupid questions . . .

Gosh that surprises me. For what use?

Funnily enough a friend of mine has just bought this wonderful building in Debenham, Suffolk, previously the Foresters Hall.

to vulgarise the discussion, what do they pay for the chip?

Sounds like you know what you're talking about with Kent, which makes them look rather naughty with their statements like: "Fuel Suppliers – We use locally sourced wood fuel to generate heat and power from our biomass power plant. The South East of the UK used to be the home of several paper mills that provided a commercial market for local forestry, it also used to be the centre of home grown fencing materials in the UK. "

Thanks Sutton! Yes, I'd love to write up the woods here, but am stressed out doing paying work in the daytime, tap-tap-tapping in a slightly abstract but sporadically productive fashion, and occasionally getting to go out in the woods themselves! Will try and do something for you all - it's getting more interesting the more I learn about it. It seems to be a very diverse little area. This is an interesting question for me specifically, since we have 3 hectares or so of nine year old ashes: has the virus got to Kerry yet? Yup. So, we may well have a bit of blank canvas to work from in the next couple of years. In a briliant bit of self-sabotage when we moved here, herself and I were disagreeing about how active our management of the new woods would be. "Man Does; Woman Is" as the poet says. I made a brilliant call and said "let's take two fields (I can't get used to calling them compartments yet). I'll manage mine 'properly' and you can let yours go to rack and ruin with neglect." It was the middle of winter; I barely know which end of a tree is which and, of course, chose the nearly 100% ash plantation, while she's got a lovely oak and birch baby-forest in blooming health while mine has bare heads sticking up everywhere!

As to being a climate change tree, one of the reasons eucalypts are abhorred in some places is because they're so good at getting all the moisture available for themselves - the water-table falls and starves other plants of water.

As an outsider in (or at best an incomer to) this world, I'm beginning to realise that the biodiversity and environmental arguments for and against, say, a eucalyptus plantation, should be considered in the context of alternative land uses, which in the situation you're positing is grain or grass - neither of which are notably diverse when done commercially. Gosh, that was clumsily put - forgive me. I'm the Henry James (famous for tortured syntax and yard long sentences) of the tree world.

My (Australian) wife reckons eucalypts are Australia’s revenge for the rabbit. I don’t think Portugal thinks much of them any more ...

Did you find new shoots from the roots? (Which sounds like a rap event)

Anyone know the case against Black Locust (pseudoacacia somethingorother)? Remarkable properties are claimed for its timber (as long lasting as teak apparently) and grows like a weed. This has led to its planting being banned in some states of the USA where it is native. Hungary has been the pioneer in selecting and growing it as a plantation tree and is now exporting it back to the USA as a structural timber. I have no dog in this fight except that we inherited a half dozen of them and they’re attractive fellows. We’re in Ireland and there’s apparently a programme to promote them as a plantation tree here.

I read somewhere that alder was favoured for watery uses, such as the pilings that Venice is built on, and water pipes and conduits, which is odd given everyone's experience of it rotting quickly. There's obviously more to this wood business than common sense . . .

Of course TVI has the option of registering for VAT or not, if his sales are <£85,000 p.a.