Billhook

Just been on the roof and the temperature of the chimney pot is 7 degrees, so the efficiency of the Rumford is 500/7 x 100 or about 7000%. I am only following the science just like Boris and I am sure it is just as accurate!

I have had this problem before putting a video directly on a thread. Some can see it and some cannot i usually have to put them on YouTube Anyway this is the Rumford after an hour an a half with no wood added IMG_2213.MOV

Well , last still photo! Here are the videos The moon is bright and it has turned very cold outside, not in here though The temperature on the Rumford is about 500 degrees and it has only been lit for about ten minutes and the Aarrow Stratford is about half that and has been lit all day but it is heating the water, on the other hand I would have expected the glass on the door to be a bit hotter IMG_2208.MOV IMG_2209.MOV IMG_2210.MOV

I see that they still are making Bosky stoves. Does anybody here run one? Bosky F25-F30 THERMOROSSI.CO.UK Thermorossi Bosky F25-F30

I rather fell on my feet, as I discovered that the main North Sea gas line passes 100 yards from my remote house along the lane going from the main sub station to the local town. My initial enquiries were fruitless but later they relented and offered a connection for £90 but I would have to supply, bury and be responsible for the 2 inch metal pipe going to the house. Or I could have the high pressure pipe brought to the house for £200 as long as I dug the trench, so the latter was a no brainer! For electric I managed to buy some second hand armoured cable for not a lot and trenched it half a mile to the farm but because of the diameter and length of the cable I was limited to about 6 kw. This did not matter as I had the gas for heating. The gas was so cheap for years but as it became more expensive I bought the Aarrow Stratford and linked it to the gas via a Dunsley Neutraliser. I do not use the gas at all now for heat, just cooking. The final part of the story happened about five years ago when Western Power decided to renew their main 33,000 Kw line that runs over the farm, but they wanted to also change the route which meant putting poles in different fields which was a pain to farm around and the whole project was very disruptive. What would I like in compensation? Three phase line trenched to my house please! Grumble grumble grumble, but they caved in at the finish. So I am not threatened with divorce (over the electric supply anyway!)

Last one I promise! This is the Aduro, very efficient with plenty of glass, but the Rumford is the better experience, sitting a gazing at the dancing flames! You can see my rather crude flue going to the old soot door

Forgot to show the damper control which is an old brass window winder the metal damper plate goes across the whole width of the throat which is four inches wide and three feet long When shut it completely shuts off the chimney from the room and is infinitely adjustable until vertical When vertical it acts as a shield to prevent any down draught or smoke coming down the throat as the smoke would hit the smoke shelf behind and be taken up with the hot gases Initially I had a soot door behind the smoke shelf so I could sweep the chimney into the garage. But marriage meant the garage was converted into a room and I connected the Aduro stove to the old soot door . The two fires seem to run together or individually without any problems sharing the same chimney The second photo is one of the adjustable vents , one on either side, each fed by a four inch pipe set in the concrete floor and fed from outside.

Here are a few photos back in 1983 My big brother standing in front of it who sadly died of non Covid problems last year. Plus dear old Beatrix the Airedale who died in 1998 aged 16, so lying by a wood fire most of her Winter evenings did not seem to do her much harm The third photo shows the chimney brickwork in the upstairs bedroom , the fifth is the first fire with obviously no air control and the last two are as it us now with a pair of mesh gates to shut for safety overnight or if I leave the room

I built my house in 1983 with no electricity supply available My cousin married an ex RN submariner who was then working at Listers in Tetbury He organised a Lister Startamatic diesel 3.5KW generator, the sort that goes pleasantly chugg chugg chugg rather than brrrrrrrrrrr! He also found me some ex sub nickel cadmium batteries which I could charge up when the generator was going and then use them for lighting at night with a 2 kw inverter. This was ok for lights but because the inverter was square wave as opposed to sine wave there was a loud buzz on tv and hifi Together with a Bosky 90 wood stove ( what happened to them?) I managed quite well…………. Until I got married! Doesn’t life change!!!

There are occasions particularly on a North facing wall where the chimney has been built on the outside, that it will just not draw very well in cold weather. This is especially bad when starting and there may be a down draught which fills the room with smoke. An insulated flue would be the answer in most cases

I will strap you in a chair on the opposite wall and time how long you can stand it! But more seriously i have and infra red temperature gun like the guy in the video and could take a series of readings from the fire to the brickwork to the flue and to the chimney The Aduro shares the same chimney so there would be a very good comparison . I will conduct an experiment over Christmas and be prepared to eat humble pie or humble Christmas pudding!

Big J I am not arguing that the average open fire at 20-30% is in anyway near the highest 80% efficient stoves. There are very different types of fireplace, just as there are very different types of wood stove. I am not denying that the most modern and efficient wood stove with all the goodies will be the most efficient. What I will argue is that a poorly designed wood stove fitted to a poorly designed flue will be probably outperformed by a properly built Rumford. There are so many variables. Variables in flue design, air control, insulation so a stove with poor features in these areas will soon be equivalent to a Rumford with good features. A new very rich owner of a house nearby had some plumbing work done and the previous owner had installed a large wood stove. This stove was built in Eastern Europe (badly) had double doors which did not seal. It looked good with polished brass handles. Anyway the new owner asked the plumber if he wanted it, so he said yes please and took it home, but his wife said no, too big, too ugly so he gave it to me and we took it down to the log cabin. It took three of us the lift it into position. It never heated the cabin (25'x25') properly and took a large amount of wood to feed it. No proper air control but I did fit an insulated flue above. However this meant that you could put the back of your hand on the flue so none of that heat went into the room, it all went out of the chimney. A year or two later some pleasant people came in the night in the middle of a blizzard, one climbed onto the roof and undid the lead flashing on the chimney, took the flue and the stove. A kindly neighbour took pity and donated her heavy old stove with no glass and again double doors which wasnot much better than an open fire, but at least we could shut it up for safety in the wooden cabin. So two examples of pathetic wood stoves and I can state that the Rumford is infinitely better than both. There are other factors in the often quoted 20% versus 80% figures. These always come from people trying to sell wood stoves Going back to flue design and insulated flues, if the latter is fitted it surely means that a lot of heat is lost straight out of the chimney In the case of my Rumford there is a clay flue surrounded by brickwork and any heat lost up the chimney goes into this heat sink and can be felt upstairs in the bedrooms. This heat transfer does not seem to be taken into account during "scientific" stove tests. This man has quite a good video on heat loss with a stove and his improvements But heat efficiency aside, when people come into our living room for a Christmas drink and see the Rumford going, they are immediately drawn to it, conversation flows easily with the drinks and this does not happen with our wood burners in the same way. They may comment on the Aduro and say how it looks good but there is something about an open flame. Perhaps by opening the doors of the stove it would be similar but it is not the same.

I have been searching the web for a study of the efficiency of open fireplaces compared to wood stoves and came up with this 2007 report. https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/61497708.pdf To cut a (very) long story short they found that an open fire is half as efficient as a wood stove 30% as opposed to 65% But the amount of variables in an open fire is huge. Apart from the fireplace design and chimney design it makes a big difference if the chimney is on an outside wall, whether brick ,metal or lined or insulated flue and whether air is drawn in under doors and through inefficient windows. I suggest that my Rumford would be far more efficient. the proof is in the pudding. I can put a handful of logs for overnight burn in both the Stratford and the Rumford and the embers will still be glowing eight hours later in both fires. I will fix some chairs on the far wall opposite the Rumford and strap any disbelievers to the chairs until they beg for mercy! Yes, I agree with you there are many different designs to assess., my neighbour has a Jetmaster and is very pleased with it but my Rumford is much better. There is no way that you can put my Rumford in the same category as my parents old fireplace in the old house. Open Fires | Mendip Fireplaces MENDIPFIREPLACESBATH.CO.UK Contemporary and traditional open fires shown with a selection of stone, timber and marble surrounds. Going back to John who started this thread, I still suggest that he tries a Rumford in one of his fireplaces built to the correct specification. I found the initial diagrams in a book called "Wood Heat" by John Vivian, you can find a copy on ebay for not a lot. Vital to have a large diameter air pipe taking air from outside to the fire to stop draughts. Too small a pipe will cause the air to roar to feed the fire. And yes John your metal will radiate more heat into the room. I have put a smaller 2 foot square Rumford in the bedroom (24'x24') and put a heavy cast iron plate at the rear which improves the radiated heat. The Rumford in the living room (24'x18') is 3 foot square You will then be able to compare the two with more accuracy. If it does not perform as I say then feel free to call me all the names you want on Arbtalk!

Depends on my wife!

#i think the 20% figure would definitely be my parents old house and fireplace but I would put my Rumford much nearer a wood stove. You must know by now that I am simples! The air is controlled in my living room by shutting down the two 4 inch pipes under the floor that bring in air from the outside. The room is otherwise sealed with double glazing and draft proof door. The flue can also be shut right down. The room is like a giant wood burner and has the additional benefit of heating up the mass of brickwork in the centre of the house which creates a longer background heat. A lot of wood stoves do not draw in air in this way and it has to be sucked in under doors and through inefficient windows creating draughts and thus more inefficiencies. Fair comment, but is it not true that wood when burnt will create a certain amount of particulates no matter how it is burnt? In an efficient fire you burn less wood so less particulates, but the particulates are still there. My only comment about the health of people around wood fires is that my parents both had a huge open fire every day in the Winter in their draughty old house and both lived to a good age 87, and 91 and wood smoke was not put down as a cause of death.

Whilst you are correct for most situations, all I can say is that there is a world of difference between the old farmhouse, uncontrolled wide chimney system and the Rumford in my living room here. Basically the room is sealed, airtight with gas filled double glazing. The chimney is in the middle of the house and the brickwork warms the first floor as well. The air that feeds the fire comes in from the outside and has two grills either side that can be adjusted, the flue above the fire has an iron plate which can be completely shut. The result is that the fire can be controlled and the large area of brick at the back of the fire which is shallow pushes the heat out into the room. In this way my Rumford is acting more like a wood stove The result is that when I put exactly the same amount of wood in the Rumford as I put in the Aarrow, I find that they need to be topped up at the same time I admit that both have not got a secondary burn as in the very latest wood stoves, all am saying is that there is a world of difference between some open fires, just as there is between some wood stoves Are you really saying that wood stoves do not pollute the air? Vindico | Your Wood Burning Stove And Air Pollution WWW.THINKAIR.CO.UK How much does your fashionable wood burning stove contribute to air particle pollution? The result of that ‘homely...

In the old farmhouse where my parents lived, uninsulated with many drafts, we had a large open fireplace and keeping it going was like stoking the Bismark. My father used to sit in his chair with a screen on one side to protect against the radiated heat, and a rug on the other side to protect from the draft! I went on strike and ordered a Clearview Stove, put it on the hearth with a metal plate over the old fireplace and a hole in it for the short flue on the back of the stove. I lit the fire at about six pm and went off to play tennis leaving father in a grump as he wanted his open fire back I crept around the door at about eleven o'clock on my return and collapsed laughing to see father in his string vest and underpants! He said that he went to sleep and when he woke up he thought he was in hell! Yes, that worked in the farmhouse. when I built my house in 1983, before the popularity of wood stoves, I asked the old brickie to put in a Rumford fireplace which I had been reading about. He was very reluctant as like all brickies he had his own way of making fireplaces. "I 've never seen a bugger like this, still its your money and if you want to waste it that is your problem" etc etc. It turned out to be be a big mistake as I found them standing in front of it on very cold days when they were meant to be on the roof "Well I never would have believed it" etc etc! Rumford fireplace - Wikipedia EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG They are very efficient and we have had a good test this week as the central heating system has been playing up with poor circulation. We have two wood stoves, An Aarrow Stratford 25kw boiler stove and a Danish Aduro modern design. So those were lit plus the Rumford and There was very little difference in the amount of wood used between the Rumford and the Aarrow, but the Aduro was more efficient (But it is only 6 kw)but not as much as I expected, Aduro 9 convection stove with three side windows WWW.ADUROFIRE.COM An impressively large glass area is achieved by adding side panes and minimising the bars between the glass in the door... The Rumford kicked out a great deal of heat, reflected into the room by the tall brickwork at the back. Before the Rumford was built I also put two 4 inch drain pipes in the concrete floor to bring air in from either side from the outside and eliminate drafts. Also I can shut off the flue easily with the full width steel plate when not in use or to control the draft up the flue a bit. I would always light the Rumford if we have folk in for a Christmas drink as it seems to bring out a instinctive warm social atmosphere not quite achieved by the stoves even though they have glass doors. I would think about putting a Rumford in one of your fireplaces, but find the right brickie!

just found this on the web Tighter than a .... in The AnswerBank: Phrases & Sayings WWW.THEANSWERBANK.CO.UK "Nun's Chuff" made me chuckle

The bearing shaft seems to be as tight as (I cannot think of the proverbial!) and there ia no play but it runs freely. It must have been something to do with what the guy in the video is trying to correct by judicial hammering. I wire brushed the blades and the castings before fitting to make sure that nothing might cause distortion on tightening, and I did not tighten very hard as the motion of the saw is self tightening

Took the new blade off and tried two more which worked fine without wobble and demonstrated that the new blade was faulty so it has been sent away to a saw doctor together with the first blade.

I think that we should all push for it to be law in the UK!

Here is "Pro Putty, Pro Putty, Pro Putty!"

We seem to be enjoying the lull before the big storm here in the East Midlands. Like they say in the best Westerns. "Sure is quiet ain't it?" "Yeah, too quiet" then an arrow comes out of nowhere and pins his hat to a tree!

But have you fitted a wood burning stove on board???!

Telegraph Today he meant to say diesel, gas stoves and firewood!