Duffryn

That depends on the boiler and the kiln. Logpro was drying 50 tons of firewood for circa 7.5 tons of fuel. A drying cycle at 10 degrees outside temperature was 2.5 days ( 50 to 20% m/c measured be weight). The GF boiler did this after being modified by GF to solve the excessive smoke and fuel use issues but the modification was not RHI compliant hence we could not roll the product out. I have spoken to an arbtalk owner of a GF kiln who reported much higher fuel costs and significantly longer drying times using the GF kiln. There are very good reasons for this !

The Glen farrow boiler passed its emission test using a VERY small load of fuel. Yes the boiler passed the test but if you were to use a realistic fuel load (one that required refueling 3-4 times day) and the boiler were tested it would not pass the RHI emissions test. If you are claiming the RHI you would need to be happy with this. It would be worth speaking to an owner of one of these systems and ask them :- 1) How many Mw a day does the boiler produce ( A 175kwh boiler should produce 3.5-4 mw a day in realistic use) 2) How much fuel do they use ? ( An 85% efficient 175kwh boiler should use circa 1 ton of 20% fuel a day) 3) How long do the logs take to dry in 20 degrees outside temperature ? Then you will need to factor in drying times when the weather is much colder. Also consider the fuel cost of these drying times. As for the BSL sustainability question, this is largely a paper work / box ticking exercise and registering as a suppler producer is straight forward .

Yes hot air rises so the vents need to be at the bottom to help keep the temperature in the kiln

Get it right and it will earn you £650K in RHI over 20 years, be cash neutral in 18 months and transform your log business.

Ash you have exceed your PM's. Do you want to pop up to my place and have a look at my kiln set up ? I can then nip down to yours and help you get yours working properly. I see you are only using one heat exchanger which is not going to help airflow. I have a couple of exchangers you can have ( FOC ) which will help get it on the right track. PM me.

Yes basically the opposite of what a kiln needs to easy to reverse the logic. The slow airflow on a timer will not work as well as an RH sensor driving a powered vent because the temperature and thus RH will differ over time as the logs heat up.

You are loosing a huge amount of heat through the container, OK here goes. Knock your boiler up to its maximum output and make sure that the heat exchangers can handle that output (i.e take 100kw from the boiler). The vent size is critical. The key to drying logs is getting the temperature as high as possible yet still having an airflow that gets rid of the moisture. I have found that the optimum vents size is one that gives an element of back pressure whilst still maintaining a 70 degree temperature at the back of the kiln at floor level. I am afraid that is is a case of trial and error cutting a series of vents until you get it right. Where are your heat exchangers located ? You really need to spread them out to ensure even heat distribution and ensure that there is space between the crates to get optimum airflow

The rad system works but you have to have a means of expelling the air once it reaches the optimum relative humidity temperature and then reheating it and repeating the process. Not an impossible task.

Ash, What temperature are you getting inside the kiln I would guess 40 degrees max ? You would be better off putting 100kw in to an insulated container getting the temperature up to 70 degrees and drying it in a Fraction of the time. Consider using Industrial Kingspan insulation on the outside of the container ( the type with a metal outer lining). You will need to increase the size of the vents as well. Hope this helps

Here are some pics of the setup (almost complete) just need to install the heat exchangers on the kiln and cut the vents.

I've just put a 200kw heizomat woodchip boiler in to power a house, cottage and a log drying kiln. The kiln is based on a 10ft HQ container ( which I insulated myself) with two 54kw heat exchanger's ( heat exchanges cost about £500 each). It will dry 10m3 of logs from 40% to 20% in about 36 hours. I'll post some pics in the next week or so if anyone is interested.

Totally lost on the point of your post and whether you have actually tried to contact Lakeside or have a genuine reason for wishing to do do.

It says "Lakeside are our partners in LogPro but have never marketed the kiln or dealt with customer queries. If you have any questions please contact us via [email protected] or call us on 01874 612886." Note the "Partners in LogPro". Lakeside have not marketed a LogPro kiln. If you have a problem contacting Lakeside then I have offered to help ( an offer you have chosen not to take up). One has to question why ? I note that this is your first post on Arbtalk.

Read my message again ! Lakeside are not involved in the marketing or customer communication with LOGPRO. Lakeside are involved in other biomass businesses not connected to LogPro. They are a thoroughly decent outfit for whom I have a huge amount of respect. If you are having difficulty contacting them on a matter not related to LogPro then PM me with your contact details and I will gladly pass the message on

Lakeside are our partners in LogPro but have never marketed the kiln or dealt with customer queries. If you have any questions please contact us via [email protected] or call us on 01874 612886.

Yes we sent an update to our customers on Friday. Below is a copy of that email. "I am writing to update you on our progress in launching LogPro and to seek your input on a potential alternative boiler type to power the kiln. Batch fed boiler We have been working with a new boiler supplier to develop a boiler that is fit for purpose and genuinely meets the RHI emissions requirements. Tests are progressing well and we hope to have satisfied ourselves that the new boiler meets our requirements in the next 4-6 weeks. If the tests continue to go to plan then we should be in a position to start taking deliveries of the new boiler and start shipping LogPro Kilns by the end of May. Woodchip boiler solution Alongside developing a batch fed boiler we have also been investigating offering a woodchip boiler solution. This would take the form of a 20ft container which would house the boiler and fuel store and a 40ft kiln alongside for drying the logs. The drying time would increase to 3.5 days ( due to the extra volume of logs in the kiln) and the fuel store would hold sufficient fuel to run the kiln for a complete drying cycle. Our preferred boiler features and auger system with a cutter that cuts the woodchip prior to it being fed into the boiler enabling a variety of sizes of woodchip to be used from a variety of types of wood chipper. The boiler will accept woodchip to a maximum of 30% moisture content or alternatively sawdust up to 30% m/c can also be used as fuel. The costs involved in supplying this solution are considerable and we would only be able to offer the woodchip solution to customers with an annual drying requirement of 500 tons of wood a year. There would be a minimum 30 month commitment and revenue share from the RHI would start after the initial 30 month period. The benefits of this solution are that it can dry larger volumes of logs with less refuelling but clearly it will only be suitable for customers who are able to provide chip under 30% m/c as fuel. Each drying cycle will consume five tons of woodchip. If there is sufficient demand for this solution delivery would be in the region of ten weeks. Please do let us know if the woodchip solution is of interest to you".

We are working on three solutions at the moment and hope to have some positive news in the next 10-14 days. As soon as we have a meaningful update I will post on here.

Yes and good luck with that !

We visited farm 2000 during our research. Impressive systems but couldn't meet our volume. Would I feel safe dealing with Farm 2000 and do they supply what they promise. My personal opinion is a YES.When we researched Glenfarrow we saw nothing but praise. They have clearly supplied very good boilers up until now, the rush to market of an RHI accredited boiler seems to be the issue and their handling of it.

An update on LogPro. We were due to start shipping the first kilns from this coming Monday but have had to make the difficult decision to suspend these deliveries. We have experienced a number of problems with the Glenfarrow GF175 Biomass boiler that we were using. A manufacturing fault on the boiler set us back several weeks and we then discovered major emissions and fuel usage problems when loaded with more than 150kg or so of fuel (a fraction of the furnace capacity). Glenfarrow fixed this later problem for us by modifying the secondary air flow positions and the boiler performed as it should. Glenfarrow were however not able to confirm that the modifications met the RHI emissions criteria. We commissioned our own RHI emissions test which was carried out today but were far from confident of a pass result. The boiler specification from Glenfarrow states that the outputs are based on a fully loaded furnace and we were loading a mere fraction of that. Despite our best efforts we have not been able to resolve the dispute with Glenfarrow and the matter is now in the hands of our lawyers. Our customers who had signed contracts or requested draft contracts have been informed of the situation and at no point have we taken any deposits from customers. Those customers who took out insurance in preparation for the delivery of the kiln will be reimbursed in full for the cost they incurred. This is an incredibly embarrassing and expensive situation for us and very frustrating because the cause is out of our control and the kiln has been performing in excess of our claimed performance by some margin. We are now devoting all our resources into providing a replacement boiler so that we can ship LogPro kilns. I will provide an update as soon as we have a replacement.

I was not promoting Logpro or saying that LogPro was suitable or unsuitable for the purpose. I simply stated that a water based heating system would not achieve those temperatures.

Did I say it was ? I thought you were using solar and selling waste wood for £100 a ton? The tests you quoted above were all using less than 100c !

It is not possible for a water based kiln to reduce that much moisture in that time but they can reduce 20% in under 3.5 days (30% in circa 4.5 days). How this affects the treatment of disease I am not sure ?

Thanks Ash for the feedback much appreciated. Good to meet you too

In the event of a power cut the boiler fan cuts the air supply to the fire and a UPS powers the heat exchangers for four hours to disperse the energy left in the boiler.