Tom10

Agree with you Andy, 99% The 1% is because your outlook (and mine) depends on the person in question, it takes a funny sort to just 'crack on with it' and although we like to think were all mostly like this, most of us arent. With training from an exceptional centre and working for a company with the right attitude of course being a lead climber is possible direct from training, but I think this only works in 1 out of 100 cases and only then because all of the circumstances are correct. As said, the first circumstance must be the climber having an amazing attitude and secondly the firm must have good staff backing the climber. After passing my tickets I climbed various trees that looked 'hard'... but thinking logically and sensibly and being surrounded by the right people I had them down as safe as as quick as could be expected of the average experienced guy. Of course consistent quick precise work comes with time. What I absolutely agree with is this chap shouldn't do anything unless he is happy. He will make a mistake under pressure.

There's a difference between a groundie and brash dragger...... £140 for a good groundie with rigging expertise and a good eye for a reduction is fair. £80 for someone to drag brash back and forth is fair.

Disagree - all the matters is as an industry we are keeping standards high and ensuring our pricing reflects the work we do Pricing stuff at 70 quid is pointless. I try and stick to £100 minimum charge, simple. if its worth £20, the quote is still £100. I really don't see the point otherwise, by the time you calculate time, fuel, effort and everything else, I might as well stay at home and watch the TV. lets not forget NO job takes an hour! from loading the truck to unloading at the next job I bet its more like a few hours. Undercharging is devaluing this business. Its a shame the public cant see through it... If Joe public was getting a quote to build a house they would think twice about choosing the quote that is half the price of the professional outfit! Because people seem to know the risks of cheap builders and plumbers but tree work isnt so educated, so its up to the people working in this sector to ensure it is common knowledge that customers pay what the work is worth! I agree with your £140 by the way...

Originally Posted by Tom10 I would want 3 men, 1 climbing, 2 dragging (with one of the draggers being your subby transit owner, nipping off to empty as and when) You will be there 2 / 3 days as I understand you are a relatively new climber from previous posts (and presume you'll be climbing them as they dont look like a fell!?) Plus the drag on that material is greater than you think (youll know what i mean when stuff starts hitting the deck) From the pictures alone I would price this at £900 - £1,100 I see your point but you've read / understood wrong. As the red writing above, I am advising on what I think this chap should do, being a new climber I cant see him being out of there within 3 days. As I first typed, I would have 3 people, me climbing, a groundie to just drag brash and assist me in the tree, and a third chipping and removing chip. The price I put was based on the above set up, the difference being I would want to be out of there in a day, or maybe a day and the next morning at the most. Where I stated '3 days' this was my advice to the guy who originally posted as he has not been climbing long and wouldnt expect him to finish so quickly. More emphasis on safety and ensuring the job goes well. Of course, because he may be there 3 days with 3 people doesnt mean he can then charge 'per day, per person' what I would as the customer would be into about £2,000 and he would not get the job. Being new he will have to price it sensibly and take a hit if hes there for longer than I would be for the same money - speed and efficiency only comes with experience. Hope I cleared this up, (I am an avid supporter of keeping tree work prices as they should be.) Tom

I think everyone needs to crack open a can and chill out

HUH I dont get this subject - some people are saying the world is warming up because some polar bears house has melted but we haven't had a summer for about 3 years. Its mid june and about 11 degrees and doesnt look to get warmer later in the week. I dont know why the polar bears house melted and I dont know why its june and Im freezing... but if anyone is to blame im pretty sure my chainsaws and 4x4 dont contribute enough for me to care... Im a tiny fish in a massive ocean... them huge burners in China etc do more damage than all of Englands 4x4s in my opinion. I havent ever thought about the 'pollution' effect of anything i have ever done, due to the fact it will make such a tiny difference no one can ever notice it. None of us know how we got here, nothing makes sense, so why dont we all chill out about stuff that makes no sense and enjoy it while were alive, the world isnt going to blow up anytime soon and if it does none of us will know much about it. If people want to blame other people, blame the ones with a massive effect on it, and that isnt the UK! Go and get in a 4x4, drive it quickly and have a fag... the penguins really wont know any difference.

Sorry Adam - I get your point now, so a Gri Gri might make working your main line possible, or just go the whole hog and go 'properly' SRT, but thats another thread... However It works on a lanyard perfectly well if used sensibly, but I think thats due to its short length and controllability. Still keen to try it chogging down though as I find my HC is located too close to the stem, getting full of crap and not functioning properly. This idea would allow it to sit several inches away from the trunk. Cheers for input.

What back up do you have on DDRT - apart from the friction from the rope over the anchor point slowing you up if your hitch were to not grip? Of course with the lanyard the furthest you'd go is the length of the rope before you hit the stopper knot...

Interesting point - I guess the hitch would take double as much pressure as normal as your only connected to the bridge once insteas of sharing the weight with the standing end of the rope... Cant see the hitch would take too much harm though Stumpgrinder - THANKS

What I am trying to explain is really simple - I just cant explain it very well - I hope someone on here understands I need a beer ps I know my picture rocks! I am still smiling with smugness

Hi all, I was recently shown an idea by another climber which I had never thought of which seems to work well... On my lanyard I connect the standing end of the system (the biner that would usually attach to my left side D) back to the running end by a PPE certified cut away strap (like a miniture prussic loop) Please see pic attached. I wonder whether this could be done with main line (particularly useful when rope not long enough to reach ground, this makes it twice as long) Choose anchor, set up main line (as I have done in picture with lanyard) and work from a single line so you can operate at a greater distance I think this would be useful for chogging down too, so your hitch is not so close to the trunk The down side is I don't think its retrievable from the ground. Thoughts? Or am I being backwards? It is a Friday evening after all

Fair point Hama, But I think you have kind of answered your own point - Old School tactics are what Adam is trying to show - the fundamental knowledge of rigging for beginners... Like... teaching someone to use a prussic before advancing to a hitchclimber... Theyre probably never going to use the prussic but they should still have the fundamental knowledge of a prussic before they use the hitchclimber Running before you can walk kind of thing.

You will have to ID 3 or 4 trees which are usually fairly easy and only require an answer in everyday terms not latin! Dependent on experience you already have, be prepared to put it to the back of your mind and learn as if you have never seen a tree, your trainer will start with the very basics so you might find you'll be more familiar with day 3 or 4 than day 1, which will be basic 3 knot systems. This knowledge is fundamental on passing the assessment. Post how you get on, when you do it. Tom

Not my part of the world so dont know your local training providers, even if you do manage to find someone who can somehow accommodate what your after, I think it would severely hinder your learning, and in the long term you'd probably end up with more time off work because you wont store as much information. I suggest a week off work at a decent, reputable training center to give yourself the best chance. Good luck.

Chris, What area are you in? I don't know of any training providers that will accommodate what you want, the course is usually 5 days and is intensive as there is a lot to learn. Having days in between would in my opinion make learning a lot more difficult. The assessment is usually ASAP after the course while the knowledge is still fresh. Tom

Look like green peppers... So, a pepper tree hope you didn't chip the brash - could of made extra money at the local farmers market with them

No Basic tree science - the middle of the stump is dead wood, and has been for years... As Paul Smith suggests, you dot them closely on the cambium layer around the outside of the stump, killing the living part of the tree.

Ok sorry didnt read from the start... In that case what a stupid thing to contemplate Basic science of trees tells us what the tree will cope with, why and how. So carving a lovely little celtic band right round the trunk severing the cambium layer 360 degrees (effectively ring barking it) will have a massive detrimental effect, obviously... Carving a giant owl into a piece of dead wood will do no harm at all. Trying to compare carving a live tree to reducing a tree is backwards - its not remotely comparable. Cutting a tree, is cutting a tree... whether you make a pretty picture or reduce the whole crown. Its about how, and where you make the cuts... the tree doesnt know why your doing what your doing, it just reacts to the work.

Strange no-one as commented on the science of a tree My opinion: If a tree is to be entirely removed, why not carve something cool into it that people will admire, it would of only been removed anyway - the key is ensuring loads of other idiots don't attempt to copy it on unsuitable trees If a tree just needs to have one limb removed I don't think I would be carving into the face of the cut. I like to think my target pruning is good and wading into it with a chainsaw to make a picture is going to have an adverse affect on the entire reason I cut back to the branch bark collar / ridge. As with the cedar mentioned on this thread earlier - see no harm in that, its dead wood and could have been removed, it wont take any harm - the younger owls beneath (in live trunk) are debatable though. A lot of cambium layer has been removed, thus a lot of zylem and phloem so this isnt ideal, but I personally dont think the damage is bad enough for the stem to die, the carving might be sealed in years to come with callous wood though Going to town on a live tree to make a picture out of it is a bit daft, but to utilise something that would otherwise be cut off the tree, or down to the ground sounds good to me, as long as the person doing so understands basic tree science and how the tree will react to his actions.

Lots of red tape! My local landowner done what HCR said above ^ Made a grass margin on his field, 6 meters wide and he cut it regularly so walkers could walk MORE comfortably around his field, as opposed to following the original track right across the middle of the ploughed (at the time) field. Some local busy body made him change it and put up new signs so it was clear to everyone that they should be trudging uphill across the middle of a muddy field instead of the nicely cut grass he had made FOR the local walkers. Good luck!

Factually he might be right. walking up a ladder is lovely... But c'mon lets hold onto our morals ladders are the devils work ps by the time the average man can hike a stupidly large ladder off the top of his truck, battle with the weight walking it to the tree, put the stupid thing up and walk up with with his lanyard getting caught on the rungs every 3 seconds... I could have throwlined in and dismantled half the tree

Excellent cheers guys. Worth an extra tenner then! Tom

Hi all, Can anyone tell me the difference between the Haix Blue Ridge and Haix Blue Mountain? There's a small difference in price (about a tenner) but I cant really see any differences? I'm not being fussy over a tenner, just curious as to why ones slightly more before I buy one, or the other. Cheers, Tom

I ditto that! I ALWAYS untie my system not only to check and for safety reason, but if its wet / clogged full of crap it doesn't work nicely next time.

Why would you? lol I have used one and it was an aimless waste of time. The slight memory in it made it impossible as a lanyard, and even a brand new one they're obviously more rigid than rope so get caught on everything, you cant put it into a harness mounted lanyard bag, the eyes wear your krabs quicker and the eyes also twist and wind you up, you cant throw it as well as a rope lanyard and its alot harder to use with a pulley / distel system as theres no flexibility to pull it through. The only reason i can think to use one is if someone really hasnt got the cash for a lanyard and flipline. But a 4/5 meter bit of rope is like less than a tenner! Hope this answers your question in no uncertain terms and be interested to see if anyone else agrees! Ditto Will!