kevinjohnsonmbe

That's exactly my point Richard. There are hard working, tenant farmers, actually producing output... Who are at the muckiest end of the stick in the great subsidy give away. The system is inherently flawed.

Complex, for sure, but surely necessary. At the point where it is recognised that the population has exceeded the capacity of the planet to sustain it....

Is that not like, finding a solution to a problem of humankind's making, without really addressing the source of the problem....?

http://farmsubsidy.openspending.org/GB/browse/ https://fullfact.org/economy/farming-subsidies-uk/ It ain't the man / woman with there hands on the tools that get the real money....

There is a lot of misdirected energy in the 'animal rights' arena (which should really be re-catergorised as class warriors) which seems to attract a good portion of career protesters in between Occupy events, itinerant community evictions and bypass protests - should all quieten down soon with HS2 on the horizon, that'll give 'em some real focus... You've really got the wrong end of the stick with the 'hatred of farmers' thing Mull. It's actually quite the opposite. What I genuinely can't understand is why so many actual farmers are so defensive of a system which pumps multi billions into corporate coffers, so much so that ag subsidy can be traded completely de-latched from the land or agricultural activity that it is supposed to support. If there is hatred it is wholly directed at the pernicious, self interest of the likes of NFU / CLA which lobby so effectively for a system which actually deprives farmers of the proper support that should be going (if it must) to the man with his hands on the tools, not the likes of the Corporations and charities - NT, RSPB, Duchy, LANTRA etc... I wouldn't dream of it! It wasn't directed personally 'at' you, that would be about as much use as barking at the moon!! But it is well recognised that as a nation, less meat consumption would mean the opportunity for more diverse countryside - rather than vast swathes of mono-culture grass, less fart gas (bovine and human) and an increased intake of fibre would significantly improve our diets and health. Was it a thread on here where there was the article about the inefficiency of converting grain / grass into food for cattle so that the cattle could convert it into body mass so that we could eat the meat...? With an exponential population growth, short of lab cell grown burgers, it is inevitable that meat consumption must decrease... Just trying to get ahead of the game! It's a crock, the worry is that it is wearing thin and people are starting to see through it... That will be a great shame and irreversibly damaging to the sector.

There "were" some advantages to be had from running a fox - the weak, ill, old and infirm were caught by the hounds and torn to shreds for entertainment (touch of sarcasm in the last bit....) whereas the fit, strong, healthy, young stood at least some chance of evading capture and the result of the chase was to dislocate them into a new area which broadened the breeding pool... But apart from that, there's little credible justification for the "sport" other than it is just that. If over population is a consequence of the (supposed) ban, then the logical solution would be a cull by shooting - no problem with that. There's just no credibility in suggesting hunting is an effective means of population control and that duplicity is as obvious as any could be - maybe that's why the publicity campaigns of the pro-hunt organisations are so abysmal, you just can't sell a plum!

Or..... People eat much less meat..... Once a week maybe....

You usually have a half decent counter argument Mull.... Not your usual self on this one....

Yes, but... theres insufficient vacine and it has had an impact upon sale value of the ?

Would that be the link that exists between badgers that have no higher predator (through no fault of their own) and the profit driven choice of intensive farmers to cram as many cattle as is inhumanely and inappropriately possible into confined areas creating the logistical issues of slurry management coupled with the creation of an environment which actively encourages disease multiplication whilst pursuing ‘sporting’ activities which further exacerbate the ‘problem’ which is being blame shifted onto a creature so as to satisfy the blood lust of the greedy? The ‘link’ you speak of I would not dispute, the cause however, I’d suggest is about as far from the target as it’s possible to be.....

I'm on the Scotch....!

It's not so 'black and white' as to simply be about the badgers though Mull me ol' mucker.... It has more to do with the pernicious lobbying effect of the NFU (which, by the greatest of irony refers to itself as a 'union' - for farmers), the sitting government's subservience to the landed gentry - who continue to reap rich rewards from the subsidy policies that, surprise, the NFU so vociferously defend, the blatantly obvious scientific evidence which (a) pretty much discounts the relevance of badgers in comparison to intensive farming, muck spreading, transportation and sale of cattle and again, surprise, the running of fox hounds over contaminated land as the main causal effects of the growth and spread of bTB, and (b) the ignorance of the 'actual' workers of the land so long as they continue to receive the crumbs from the table, which all adds up to show that, rather than there being anything particularly 'great' about badgers (other than the marvel of God's great creation), but rather that the whole rationale for the badger cull represents much of what is sick, corrupt and misguided about government subservience to external lobbying influence.... But apart from that, and if you discount the negative impact upon nesting birds and hedgehogs - which could be mitigated by the re-introduction of higher predators which have been removed by the senseless over predation, largely for sporting pleasure or the 'protection' of farmed herds, then perhaps the ever decreasing circles of mankind's exploitation of the natural environment might just be recognised as the source of the problem rather than the solution.... Loike....

But he'd be better than the average Jo at Latin tree nomenclature.... And.... It'd be hellish funny at lunch break... Poached quails eggs sprinkled with Almas caviar on melba toast followed by paternoster chop and spotted dick for pud! 3 ½ hours to consume with an extensive wine list, Port wine and a brandy in a high backed club chair before a kip!

Tosh... Phish... flag waving... I agree. I voted Green, I'm anti badger cull, I recognise that there is no credible argument for fox hunting, I'm anti mega-corporate, have no time for shiny ass keyboard jockies that don't actually "do" anything other than move 'stuff' from here to there in a digital world, I have a social conscience but despise wasters, I am pro (the original concept of) common market but anti EU, I want a points based immigration system, I like 'people' on an individual basis but don't like the principles of mixed cultures, I work (hard - sometimes), I earn my money and I don't want it frittered away by asshole government policies and most of all.... I would never, ever, vote Labour. In many respects, my stance should be considered Lefty, but the reality is, it's Righty....

I should have read on....

Stubby?

Be wise to have a quick read of the GDPR which will come into effect May 2018: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/

I'm no expert, but isn't there, potentially, a fundamental flaw with the concept and use of VPNs, "discreet" search engines and "access only" areas of the tinterweb? My logic would be that as soon as someone subscribes to something that purports to provide "discretion / or privacy" it simultaneously runs up a flag, which says to those that might want / need to know what's going on behind the cloak of anonymity, where to look... Like putting all the dodgy geezers in one place and providing a target where to focus all the attention. Hide in the wide open has been shown to be an effective method (to a point) for some very effective, noncy, scumbags - Saville for example.

Gotta be some positives.... It’s not as if the UK is a nation of mysoginistic, xenophobic, nazi storm troopers you know.... There is still some compassion left,like, in charitable organisations for example.... Maybe there should be a “skills” based system of awarding points for the attributes advertised in your sign?? A judging panel of sorts???

? meanwhile, getting fatter & lazier, our indigenous beetles are sat in doors cultivating their “blame culture” propagated on a diet of junk food, carbonated, high sugar drinks, fags and cheap booze, spawning multiple future generations during the ad break in the Jeremy Kyle show.... thanks a bunch Mr & Mrs Blair for your trendy, media obsessed, pseudo celeb, everything is SO cool, let’s have a war legacy.....

?

No..... hold on a min! what about them foreign beetles coming over here, eating our trees.... ??

I’m SO glad Khriss came in with the beetle post after the HGV shocker.... Maybe it’s not just the beetles that are in decline, maybe this thread has run its course and Mick can finally sign it off after so many restarts ? The infamy Khriss, look what you’ve gone and done.... ?

I'd do an island life.... That's just because them beys from Plymuff are so punchy! I did go over the bridge Sunday mind, quick dash down to Dorset to get the new dog. Was back home d'reckly though.