ROG.

If C1+E is your ultimate level then yes The cheapest way is to find a company that uses a 5 tonne van for C1 and then adds the trailer to same van for the +E If you think that you will need higher categoies in the future then go for C and then C+E which covers you for C1 and C1+E

A full C1+E gives a max GTW of 12 tonnes That can be a 7.5 truck loaded to 6 tonnes with a 8 tonnes MAM plated trailer loaded to 6 tonnes

Sorry for late reply On a B+E you can use a vehicle up to 3500 kgs GVW and tow a trailer up to 12 tonnes but any trailer over 3500 kgs MAM needs more than over-run brakes which is why most are 3500 plated MAM or less What you can use the vehicle for depends on the vehicle specifications so if yours has a towing capacity listed as 3500 then that is what it should be able to cope with - as long as the trailer plated MAM allows for that weight C1 is for vehicles between 3500 and 7500 GVW C1 with a trailer over 750 kgs needs C1+E Max GTW for C1+E is usually 12 tonnes C1+E will give a lifetime B+E You can go direct from B to C (or C1)

A 'B' licence allows you to drive vehicles not more than 3500 kgs GVW and a 'B+E' licence means you can tow a trailer behind that B category vehicle Most trailers being towed by B cat vehicles are 3500 kgs MAM or less because those over 3500 require different brakes like air brakes for example A vehicle between 3500 and 7500 needs a LGV C1 licence and any trailer being towed behind it over 750 kgs plated MAM needs a C1+E licence For the those with a pre 1997 C1+E with a 107 code it means a maximum total plated MAM of 8250 kgs so a vehicle with a GVW of 5500 kgs can tow a trailer plated at 2750 kgs MAM In the above case it would also depend on any vehicle weight restrictions because if a GTW of say 8000 kgs was listed then the maximum total weight of both vehicle and trailer cannot exceed that 8000 kgs even though the plated max weight totals allow up to 8250 kgs

As I have followed and posted on this issue on many forums perhaps I can be of help .... For those with current B and B+E licences nothing will change from what it is now The only thing that may occur is that the rule which says that B licence holders cannot have a trailer MAM over the vehicle kerb weight might be revoked for everyone as that is not in the EU regs BUT there is nothing to stop the UK from keeping that rule B licence holders when towing trailers will still have the max 3500 total MAM rule where the vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM cannot exceed 3500 kgs For drivers getting their B+E licence after Jan 2013 the rules will change if they wish to tow trailers over 3500 kgs MAM with a B category vehicle Those drivers will need to take and pass the C1 and then C1+E in order to tow trailers over 3500 with a B cat vehicle I hope that helps to clarify some issues

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test. They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner. All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways. The usual rules apply when a learner is driving - The supervising driver must be aged over 21 The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer Correct insurance for a B+E learner Many will find that passing the once in a lifetime B+E test is their best option so here is some info on that test:- The B+E test No medical or theory test required Read a number plate from a certain distance [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&feature=related]VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions[/ame] - usually 5 The next three can be in any order:- [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW7DHqcO9Sg&feature=related]VIDEO - Reversing Exercise (old measurements)[/ame] - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&feature=related]VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up[/ame] - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos This is interesting – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test. So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself. NOT RECOMMENDED THOUGH !! DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS

Under 7.5 tonnes gross plated MAM and within 50 km as the crow flies from base = no tacho The max for most towing with vehicles in the B category will be 7 tonnes

Only here to help

SURNAME THEN FIRST NAME OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND - makes no difference legally as long as it is always the same way Nickname can be used if used all the time So many myths about .......

For O licencing DUAL PURPOSE vehicle means one which is a normal vehicle such as a standard 4X4 and also used for commercial purposes Tacho rules do have some exemptions for B category vehicles & trailers as well as smaller LGVs where the combination MAM is under 7.5 tonnes Drivers of all LGVs (vehicles over 3.5 tonnes) using them for any commercial purpose will have to do the driver cpc - the cut off date for most will be 09/09/2014 VOSA/police will be checking that drivers of LGVs have the DQC (driver cpc card) with them after 09/09/2014 and if found not to then it will be - start walking driver ......

Well, I can show you ..... EU REGS Article 2 1. This Regulation shall apply to the carriage by road: (a) of goods where the maximum permissible mass of the vehicle, including any trailer, or semi-trailer, exceeds 3,5 tonnes Article 4 For the purposes of this Regulation the following definitions shall apply: (a) ‘carriage by road’ means any journey made entirely or in part on roads open to the public by a vehicle, whether laden or not, used for the carriage of passengers or goods; (b) ‘vehicle’ means a motor vehicle, tractor, trailer or semitrailer or a combination of these vehicles, defined as follows: — ‘motor vehicle’: any self-propelled vehicle travelling on the road, other than a vehicle permanently running on rails, and normally used for carrying passengers or goods, 33) The introduction of recording equipment pursuant to Regulation (EC) No 2135/98, enabling the activities of a driver over a 28-day period to be recorded electronically on his driver card and electronic records of vehicle operations to cover a 365-day period, will in future make for more rapid and comprehensive roadside checks. 33) was introduced to replace the existing analogue tacho Without having a tacho fitted how else can the laws be complied with? If an exemption applies in either articles 3 or 13 then fine, no tacho needs to be fitted

The new rules on towing with B category vehicles will make virtually no difference to anyone because all trailers over 3500 kgs plated MAM come under different rules in regards to their braking systems - such as needing air brakes Those getting B+E after Jan 2013 will effectively be limited to a max total MAM weight of 7000 kgs or 7.0 tonnes 3.5 tonnes for the vehicle and 3.5 tonnes for the trailer I'll bet no-one on here tows a trailer over 3500 kgs with a vehicle under 3500

Trailers can have their MAM downplated by the manufacturer of that trailer - just call them For the test you are probably looking in the region of £650+ The B+E test No medical or theory test required Read a number plate from a certain distance [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&feature=related]VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions[/ame] - usually 5 The next three can be in any order:- VIDEO - Reversing Exercise - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&feature=related]VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up[/ame] - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos This is interesting – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test. So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself. DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS NOT RECOMMENDED THOUGH SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test. They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner. All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways. The usual rules apply when a learner is driving - The supervising driver must be aged over 21 The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained I wrote that post so perhaps I can help .... On a B only (no B+E) licence you cannot tow that 2700 MAM trailer It is the vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM which must not be more than 3500 kgs Actual weights do not come into the law regarding B licence towing rules Also the trailer MAM must not be more than the listed kerbweight for the towing vehicle when B licence towing A B licence holder can tow a braked trailer over 750 kgs and here is a legal example of that - Vehicle Kerb 1500 GVW 2000 Towing capacity 1400 Trailer Unladen 400 MAM 1500 Load trailer with 1000 max as the towing capacity is lower than the MAM

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test. They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner. All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways. The usual rules apply when a learner is driving - The supervising driver must be aged over 21 The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer Correct insurance for a B+E learner Many will find that passing the once in a lifetime B+E test is their best option so here is some info on that test:- The B+E test No medical or theory test required Read a number plate from a certain distance [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&feature=related]VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions[/ame] - usually 5 The next three can be in any order:- VIDEO - Reversing Exercise - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&feature=related]VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up[/ame] - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos This is interesting – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test. So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself. DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS

YES - licences are the same

Were both of you going too fast to be able to stop in TWICE the distance you could see to be clear?

100% legal on a B only licence in general I say general because the maximum trailer plated MAM cannot be over 750 kgs and any unbraked trailer must not be more than half of the vehicle kerbweight That last bit catches a few out because it is not widely publicised A vehicle with a kerb weight of 1400 can only tow a max MAM unbraked trailer of 700 kgs for example

I love typos 75 tonnes !! Seriously - the licences to be gained would be LGV C1 and then C1+E for a 7.5 tonner plus trailer over 750 kgs As LGV C and CE cover those above and virtually cost the same to get then go for those Gaining any +E will also give you B+E for life Cost to go from B to CE - have £3K to hand

What does it say in the handbook, the V5 and the plate?? If the original info stated it was safely capable of towing say 3500 then that will not have changed by downplating the GVW of the vehicle If the downplating has also affected the GTW then that might limit what can be towed depending on the actual weight of the vehicle at the time of towing a trailer A trailer with standard over-run brakes will be limited to 3500 MAM Towing over 750 kgs with a 3500 GVW vehicle requires the driver to be under B+E licence rules Manufacturers towing limit, if there is one, will not have changed Check to see what the current GTW is

As a LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008 I can tell you how it usually goes over a 5 day course of 1 to 1 half days or 2 to 1 all day DAY 1 - instructor talks all the time 2 - instructor talks half the time 3 - it all goes to pot - DSA/LGV stuff gone in but forgot how to drive!! 4 - after a good night kip it all comes together 5 - test passed Are you also having to pass initial driver cpc so you can drive LGVs commercially?

too true - many just guess and hope

Almost..... Where there is not a manufacturers towing limit imposed then the GTW can be utilised as the driver sees fit For the GTW it is actual weights that count but any plated weights must not be exceeded A van with GVW of 3500 and GTW of 5500 with a trailer plated at 3500 MAM can be used in these ways legally - but not always safely!! van 3500 + trailer 2000 van 3000 + trailer 2500 van 2750 + trailer 2750 van 2500 + trailer 3000

Thats what I was thinking ....

Which one of the DUAL PURPOSE EXEMPTIONS does it fall into?