Adam Bourne

Thanks tony and tom points taken on both sides. i have mentioned in one of the first posts that this type of rigging will almost certainly cause damage to the cambium layer and when we progress into adding hardware later we can show how this will avoid these problems..... realy am enjoying doing this thread.....

Using the tree to your advantage....... making rigging work the way you want does require a bit of thought, being creative and using what you have to hand will make things run a lot smoother, so mapping the tree out in your head looking to see what could be useful and whats not will soon become second nature, leaving things like pegs or whole limbs to redirect your rope to help bring a branch away from an obstacle in the way i demonstrate below, here i've used a dead peg to redirect the rigging line to help aid it away from the base of the tree were my throw line cube is the first picture is showing my redirect point the rest i used the gopro's timelapse to show the setup step by step working.

nice one mate congrats..... and enjoy every second sleep you get mate..... na just enjoy it you'll have loads of fun i'm sure

no your right mate, and sorry. i needed it in the post above to keep the gopro in one position, just on this one though. i do put my helmet on later as i show how to use the tree to your advantage using pegs and forks as redirects.

i'm having a break:biggrin: anyone is welcome to add input, advice, pictures i'll cover the rest in a little while i got square eyes...

friction managment using the base of the tree..... when more friction in the system is required there are several ways to help as Mr Blair has already pointed out in his last post, use pretty munch anything to hand.... using the tree its self by taking the rope and making quarter, half and full turns around the base is a good way to ensure better friction when lowering heaver timber. the photos below show how this is set up, going down the photos demonstrates how to add more friction. getting the wraps right first time is difficult but after a while you will know how much friction to apply. i couldn't lift a heavier enough log up on my own so only could demonstrate how its set up not executed....

here's a few threads for you mate.... http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/climbers-talk/33900-treemagineers-pulley-saver.html?highlight=pulley+saver http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/arborist-reviews/34925-teufelberger-pulleysaver.html?highlight=pulley+saver http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/climbers-talk/27690-another-home-made-rope-guide-thread.html?highlight=pulley+saver http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/general-chat/31287-teufelberger-grounded-reality.html should keep you busy mate....

lowering down by hand..... when the line is installed its always a good idea to keep the friction to a minimal a way to do this is trying to keep the friction management side of the rope in a direct root to the ground this will insure that small/light branches come to the floor with there own weight, and indirect root to the floor may cause to much friction on the rope not allowing the branch to move with gravity. heres a demo of a light dead branch being lowered on this system. it had almost no weight to it but keeping my rope route clear made it travel nicely using myself to belay it to the floor.

Choosing your rigging anchor point and placing the rope........ Its not always necessary to have the highest anchor you can find but a well placed anchor will help in aiding your rigging i've chosen this anchor(picture 1) in this cedar because it was in clear view for photos but also allowed me to demonstrate what kind of anchor to look for, Avoiding anchors like Deadwood and weak unions, compression forks are but a few, pictures 2 and 3 are anchor points to try and avoid the anchor in the 2nd photos shows a lateral limb drooping down which could cause the rope to slide down and when under load could break out the limb. picture 3 shows a tight fork avoiding these will ensure that your system runs as smooth as possible. the rope being under load in a tight fork may cause the rope to jam up leaving the branch being lowered harder to move or not at all. remember the tree will help you but it can't think for you.

Back to Basic's and choosing the right rope.......Again. So in the next few posts i'll demonstrate why its important to choose the right rope, choosing the right anchor point, placing rigging line, using the tree to your advantage, friction management using only the rope and tree, also the use of a tag line. For this demonstration i'm using the 12mm Marlow braid line its tightly braided construction is supple, hard wearing and snag resistant (see photo 1) using a double braided rope such as this samson stable braid (see photo 2) is not good for natural fork rigging, the soft outer sheave will catch on everything as demonstrated in the photo i pulled out a strand with my fingers easy, imagine what a peg or bark will do to it.

awesome Stephen a rigging/speedline/tag line in one....... first for me so thanks for sharing..... very simple and very effective......

Really enjoyed that Ben, some lovely smooth rigging, and nice touch on the new york jazz......

Thanks for all the positive feed back guys:thumbup1: much appreciated. James nice one for your input mate good start.... simon i dare say you are more experienced than you make out! but hopefully we can enlighten your rigging vocabulary... i'm really running in and out of things tonight so might not get a chance to extend the threat but my next post will run back to the bigging of my talk on basic rigging and choosing the right rope for the job. i will add as many photos as i can with detailed descriptions of what is involved in natural crotching, taking loads and how to use the tree to your advantage. also along the way we will talk through useful knots and hitches using the arbtalk knot guide, also i will make a few videos of the above techniques just to demonstrate video wise everything in action. once i get the informative posts up and running it would be much appreciated for those that have other advice on the pending subjects to discuss other alternatives general info and anything i have missed out....this will make the thread what i intended to be covering everything. i'm happy with the way its going so far....

Thanks mate.....

This i 100% agree with all day long mate.... this thread will be designed and built on all our knowledge combined together, i'm not intending to do this solo although it does feel like it at the minute! having good and lots of equipment is not necessary! sure some of johny's blue poly prop rope will do but its not about that its about setting standards and as a professional i will try and keep the bar high so others have a better chance at understanding and utilising what they have in front of them. i have a little girl to deal with when i get in as alex mostly works the late shifts to keep the pennys coming in i work most days and like all that do this job knows how hard a day can be. being self employed does not mean i can just come home and switch of so the thread will progress once i get a chance.

in My reply to the post's made by stephen, and skyhuck i have highlighted this post by dartmoor!. firstly because i never got a chance to reply to it and secondly it pretty much sums up what learning people is about, take a knot for example the more you tie dress and set the knot the easier it becomes to do and the most important thing is you remember is you learnt the knot through being repetitive. Huck, in your post you mentioned that to learn something new you need the very basic principles of what your doing and most importantly why. well my answer to that is how basic can you get by showing what i class as basic rigging gear. we've discussed the basic's of ropes and what kind of ropes to use, and the very basic's of simple hardware such as a figure of 8. how i planned this thread in my head is exactly how i was taught. introducing the basic gear for a start will help later in the thread so when i gets to the tutorial photos i have know need to baffle on about, what this is what that is, just plain and simple how its done. Huck, i know you better than that now mate, posting on this forum and reading other peoples post's has taught me one think never assume how anyone is talking to you as everyone's post can be read out of text. i see know harm in your post and i think i've replied the best i can. Stephen i agree with you mate, there is a lot to rigging that helps everything run smoothly, position of hardware, ropes. communication is key and yes cuts are a real key to making it work right. To everyone else who has posted giving support thank you:thumbup: i never intended to start this thread and after a day be done with it taking time about it allows us to have conversations and debates like this, rome was not built in a day! you have to look back on the history of tree work rigging and how far its progressed the thread will take ages if not years to complete and there will always be something new to add so for all you pro's out there please bare with me i know you must feel frustrated at how i have gone about it but all will come good. i promise. Thanks. Adam

thanks for a well put reply rupe..... the reasons behind this thread is to help climbers wanting to know about rigging and what equipment to use so personally i think running through the basic equipment first is a great start its not about going out there and buying shiny new stuff but maybe it will help the suppliers so if there looking, my bank details are! account number 55???............ exploring new ideas has to start somewhere if i started straight out with this goes there, that does that it would make for a very boring thread. so starting at the very beginning buy naming and showing a few bits of equipment will then stem into a know how later with informative and well documented rigging methods...... so maybe everyone else needs to slow down and wait for the thread to develop its self.... are you still lost mate?

i'll demonstrate in pictures later mate, for now though the whoopie sling is adjustable for length and yes is choked to the stem on the ground, the down side to using a capstan like this one is you can't get all the slack out and will cause a slight free fall before underload, hope this helps for now mate,,,,,

all the post's are related theres no way to get lost. (at the minute anyway) i've just gone through basic gear and explained in words how to do it. the pictures will explain more when i get a chance.....the thread is open for you to go back and read through again so please do. and i've already said if your unsure about anything then just ask! someone will reply with an answer thats the whole point of this thread.......

haha deja vu..... i will demonstrate pictorially on how its done soon i just want to pass on some basic equipment first..... thanks again pete.

well well rupe i thought you would of come with something more sarcastic than that..... if i go any slower i will stop. but if you want to go slower just read one letter at a time..... i was always taught to just cut and hold on tight.....

i've mentioned the beginning mate:001_smile:, and hopefully it will be a good opportunity for us all to share our wisdom....

the weakest link.... as in the previous post i mentioned about trying to keep the rope the weakest part of the system......this is a demonstration on how to go about it. when you've chosen your rope and what diameter and have got. the pulley,again with the appropriate max rope diameter to house the rope, then attachment of the pulley into the tree will require a dead eye sling (see attched on isc pulley in the pulley section photo). a ruff guide to making sure the rope will be the weakest link is to have the dead eye sling 2mm or more in diameter larger than the rope. the 2 pictures show 2 of my sett ups for rigging. the first system is 14mm samson stable braid with a small isc 16mm max diameter pulley and a 16mm marlow doublebraid deadeye sling. the second system is 16mm marlow braid rope with a medium isc pulley with a 24mm yale deadeye, the rope in this system is coming to its end of use so will be replaced by some 19mm polydyne hence the larger deadeye.

some better shots....

progressing on the lowering devise..... Adding Pulleys into the system will almost remove all friction so using the figure of 8 won't be very practical so the use of a better lowering device will be needed. the picture below is of a yale whoopie sling and a small isc porta wrap, this will manage your friction. and if your rope is run direct from this to the main anchor pulley down to the branch tied of with a hitch to minimise hardware, it will also increase your work load making sure your working again within all your SWL the rope should be kept as the weakest link in your system... different rigging scenarios require other components such as Karabiners, rigging plates and slings which will all limit your load and the rope will no longer become the weakest link, so what ever your lowering be sure to work to the piece of hardware with the lowest SWL in the 2nd picture my weakest link is my slings with a MBS (Minimum breaking strain) of 30kn. of course there are many types of slings with larger SWL but use what is safe and right for the application .