Big J

I don't think that people take issue with Mogg lying down so much as his entire character. He's the personification of privilege, entitlement, pomposity and elitism.

It's Brexit fatigue. I'm shamelessly championing those that help serve my POV. Fuck it. Rationality gets you nowhere when you've two intractable positions, neither willing to compromise. Each is convinced they're right and won't be persuaded otherwise. The lesson thus far in Boris's premiership is that the hard line Brexiteers have finally got their hands on the tiller and have in a few short weeks done far more damage to the Brexiteer cause than May ever did. I take solace in this

I understand fully that to Leavers, he's a rather large thorn in their side. I'm happy to appreciate him whilst leavers might appreciate Rees Mogg. They are both simply focal points of two diametrically opposed ideologies. Both of them (on a personal level) are probably twats (Rees Mogg certainly), but each serves a purpose to each of the camps.

Yep. You won't appreciate his input as you're on the other side of the debate, but he applies a certain degree of check and balance to the Tory's more right wing elements. I wouldn't accuse him of being unbiased, but then, who is?

I must admit that I find Bercow to be one of the most consistently entertaining members of parliament. He sure has balls, and I commend him for the manner in which he represents himself. It's been strangely satisfying watching the speed at which Johnson et al have crashed the government. They're driving themselves and the country into a brick wall whilst all the time trying to mash the accelerator. Teresa May must have medically diagnosable Schadenfreude by now. 3 years the Tories moaned about her, but at least she left with a working majority, as opposed to a minority of 43. I do hope we'll see the back of Boris in the coming month or two. Good riddance to the pompous, self serving arse. I don't want to see Corbyn in power personally though. A government of National Unity seems sensible to me, and I'd be happy to see Ken Clarke at the helm. Over the past fews years, I've had nothing but respect for his pragmatism and wisdom.

Jesus! Do you run a crematorium or something? That's a stove of ungodly proportions!

The weather the last few days would be best described as lacking in any actual weather. Not cold or especially warm, neither sunny or cloudy, not windy, odd light shower. Just grey and still. Can't complain!

Possibly. A fairly relaxed grip will help. A Mk2 550XP will have very low vibration levels. Fact is that all saw work is going to affect your hands in some way. I try to avoid it now as I like to play piano with the kids and it does my playing no good at all.

Anti vibration gloves won't help as they are thicker and the additional effort required to hold the saw cancels out the effect. They were OK for chainsaw milling though. What saw are you using?

I was simply quoting the landowner. He volunteered the information. Both built like tin sheds and well outside the catchment area for the school which my daughter is settled. You wouldn't know the latter, but you can surely see the former? I don't want a house that requires endless heating. It's expensive, exhausting and environmentally awful. Well sir, you seem to have formed your opinion of me well before this discussion started. You say that I've made no effort to integrate, yet I've been told repeatedly (this week included) by locals that they can't believe how many people I know in the area. I don't make assumptions about you, so please refrain from doing the same about me. Again, respectfully, there is not. I have been involved with architecture (and by extension planning) for my entire adult life. I did my work experience, aged 15 split between an architects practice and a rural vets. My grandfather was also an architect. I am banging my head against a brick wall here. We are so conditioned in the this country to oppose all new development that the first reaction is always "I don't want them to have it because I don't think that I can". Why can't people just be happy that other folk want to build a house for themselves and their family? I don't want to ever move again, I don't see a house as an investment. I just want security and a quality home. I don't want to have to duck for doorways, shuffle around a dining table because the rooms were built too small, constantly stoke a fire because the house has the thermal efficiency of a tent. I don't want to have to rent from millionaires because I'd rather that I (or my children) eventually benefitted from that expenditure. Nothing listed above is ostentatious, exploitative, entitled or unfair. It's natural human desire, and entirely justifiable. The last I will say before I report back is that we are going to speak to the planners. I have already been told that under the circumstances of resuming sawmilling that an AOC would be considered. I can cite precedent and I am bloody determined.

Links please

That's nonsense and you have absolutely no basis on which to make that statement.

I don't think that the analogy works, but I appreciate your point. Fact is, we build the worst houses in Western Europe, they cost more than almost anywhere else, we don't make provision for small businesses as we should and our planning laws are a joke. I'm not asking for special treatment, just the right to own the site that I conduct my business from to give us long term security and to minimise costs. I can't buy agricultural commercial property any more because it doesn't exist on account of Class Q. Industrial yards are few and far between and rarely suitable for forestry businesses. Houses with existing barns are too expensive (subjectively, objectively and materially). Renting has no long term security and it's extremely expensive to move (I once worked out that moving my sawmill business premises would cost me £28k). Renting is also contributing to someone elses wealth and is money down the drain. In an effort to sort of conclude this discussion (because it's not going anywhere), my wife and I were chatting about it again today and we need to have a longer chat with the planners when we don't have the 2 year old present. I shall report back. Edit: I should add that I would be able to cite precedent in two cases, local to us, where something almost exactly like what we're striving to has been built without planning, but it was granted retrospectively

The landowner adjacent to our site has 180 acres and I was simply quoting him when he said "we're paid not to farm"

We are here now. Business established, kids settled, brother 15 minutes down the road, life made. Our goal in life isn't the attainment of a comfortable family house and space to run a business from. It's to have a happy life, and the aforementioned housing makes that easier. 2.5 acres per man woman and child in Devon. That is worth remembering. There is no shortage of space, just a shortage of desire to charge archaic and discriminatory planning laws.

No, we have absolutely no choice. You are (respectfully) mistaken. If you wish to check, go on Rightmove and find me a house within a 5 mile radius of Uffculme suitable for a family of 4 (with a spare bedroom, as the grandparents come to stay frequently) with outbuildings or land to build barns. Try and find one for less than £600k....

Fair enough, and I'm happy for them. I nevertheless feel that the current planning regs are not fit for purpose as regards to rural workers and others might well be managing, but it's as much because they just don't have a choice.

They do. Just managing and being happy are two different things though. I would prefer the latter.

Keep it clean! We already have thousands of posts going round in circles there - I want an entirely new topic for that purpose! ?

I respect your experience in this industry, but I disagree with you about the extent to which rural planning exemptions should apply to rural workers. Presently, you have AOCs for people in farming and Section Q exemptions for very wealthy people to build luxury countryside pads. There is nothing else, and the narrowly restrictive planning policy denies the fact that there are many different ways to manage the countryside, and they are all important.

My understanding is that there is a minimum time period you have to keep the kit for before you sell it, or else you're obliged to pay the grant back. It was 6 years for the grants relating to the sawmilling in Scotland, but ESS said it's 4 years down here.

Yes, but it only the farms that have a monopoly on rural planning, which was the original point I was making. Not saying that this is the fault of the farmers, but it is to the exclusion of the rest of us.

I have not said that for a moment. The field that we are working from (it's at the foot of the stand we are working in) belongs to a dairy farmer who never, ever seems to stop working. My issue is that some people abuse the system, and the system is indeed ripe for abuse as the benefits afforded to farms are unique and if you know the system, quite lucrative.

Possibly. I've just been torturing myself (and my wife) looking at houses there. It's a complete dead stop restart though. Getting going in Devon (whilst it hasn't been without it's challenges) has been easier. It comes down to family really. We see much, much more of them now and that's what's important to us and our daughters.

Can we just agree that the grant/subsidy/regulation element of farming is unfit for purpose? The whole system would work better if everyone just earned what they earned rather than having to jump through a 1001 hoops to get subsidies A through Z and in order not to fall foul of regulations C though T and not have fines F through Z imposed on them? I'm exhausted just discussing it on here, and I haven't even applied for anything yet! ?