Rupe

Yeah cool. I'm just being careful! It did all get a bit out of hand!

For the record - No one is accusing anyone of being dishonest.

They go over spkies quite well and are very handy. I use PAntin, but I'm sure the CMI's would fit aswell.

Sorry Stevie you beat me to it, so my post does not relate to yours. I agree with you too though, we can't do it all.

I agree with all of the above. Sub-contracting out work is fine. And companies need to do this to expand and grow. A self employed groundie on a day rate is not a sub-contractor. (The word subbie is misused regularly) and they do not need PLI. I stand by what I've been sayign that wanting a self employed person to come in for 8 hrs onsite per day with PLI and remove all of soemoene elses waste AND do groundie work for them is asking rather lot. If the company in this instance finds someone then good for them. I have no problem with what anyone else does but I have an opinion thats worth discussing. I am suggesting that this thread be moved to off topic so that the original poster can make a new request for help, and non members won't be put off by my rantings. It was never an intention to dis credit an individual for their working methods, each to there own.

And, I didn't say you WERE a slave driver. I just said that it made you look like a slave driver. Thats why I posted what I did. Don't take it so personally. I have no probelem with what anybody does around my area, I do my own thing and am good terms with most others, I'm far more laid back than you would think. The internet is a good place for good rant though, no harm done. I thought we were in agreement that it raised some good points for discussion?

Now I think you rmisinterpreting my posts. I am far from miserable, I'm not telling anyone else what to do, I am just having an opinion and explaining my position.

FWIW I am in a similar position. The majority of my clients have acres of land and they keep everything, even useless stuff which is definatly "waste". I have little use for a yard (I have one but its 20 miles from my base and only used for logs) I have a waste carriers license and access to every council allotment in the area they eat woodchips for breakfast! I have a chip truck (of sorts, its an LDV) and that is to chip into so I can tip it out neatly in a different place. Often I chip onto a pile using a quad to get the chipper into place. The only difference is anybody I get in to help who is self employed is covered by my insurance becasue I am the one who has taken on the job and I have done the initial site risk assessment. No one coming in for the day can know what to expect so how can they pre arrange any safety requirements? Safety is your responsibilty so your PI covers all. Unless you are truely subcontracting. Also, I am extremely grateful to those who help and I thank them all personally and regularly. I am under no illusion that I am helping them out. It doesn't work that way, as a boss you have to thank those that help you. I've worked for many that almost (some actually did) expect me to thank them at the end of the day/week for giving me work. That is no way to manage a business IMO. I think this forum is good for chat and banter, but don't forget that its also a reference point to many to learn about the business. I'm kean to ensure that poeple, esp/ newbies, aren't taken advantage of. To that end I think its important to let them know that they don't need PLI in order to work self employed for someone. Thats wrong and its the insurance companies that benifit, no one else. If I've ruined your advert for a skip on wheels, than I apologise, no personal attack intended, but the issues raised are valid IMO. A request for someone to help with movign stuff now and then would be positivley recieved I'm sure, but the initial requirements of 8 hrs, PLI. WC and be grateful etc etc. just made you look like a slave driver. In your second post I would rather be able to give a lower price and also give someone some work too Your not "giving" them work, they would be giving you time and use of their equipment that you don't have. That's somethign to appreciate not to take advantage of. (again IMO only)

I seriously don't. I'm highlighting the case of companies getting others to do what they can't, but I have no problem with what you do, and nor do I have any right to have a problem with it. I agree with you on the free market thing, whatever works for you. I'm not sitting here gettign upset, stressed or any of those things, and I don't think you need to be bothered by anything I say, I just like a good rant now and then. The PLI issue is my only real gripe and that has been going on for some time and is not directed at you personally. I don't think describing a transit as a skip on wheels will make transit owners rush to help you out, but thats up to you. If I've upset the apple cart that much I'll bow out but I think I've opened up some good conversation. I'm not alone in my opinions but many don't agree also, thats a good debate then?

Are you after someone on day rate or as a subcontractor? You can't have both? As stated by Lee earlier, a day rate self employed person does not need PLI. I just think your asking a lot. Someone could come along with a truck and remove your waste but to be there all day helping you with groundie work is a big request especially as you imply that you would be doing someone a favour by giving them the work. I think you should be extremely grateful to whoever helps you out with this. I have not accused you of doing anything wrong or illegal so don't point accusations at me. I'm entitled to throw toys etc. thats what a forum is for sometimes. I actually don't care what other people get up to, doesn't mean I'm not goign to stick my oar in every now and then. The PLI thing is an issue that needs resolving, I think there is another thread on it soemwhere, not sure how its going though. I'm saving up for a bigger horse!

Andy I agree with you. Bringing in second person to do this part of the job means another person who needs to make a profit and this could make the whole thing unfeasable. I think with Petes set up its a bit different cos theres huge savings to be had by not hand balling stuff onto many truck loads so everyone is a winner. Pete has set himself up to provide this service.

No skin off my nose what you do, but in general terms I stand by what I said. We've had this conversation on here for a while about companies getting in others to do work that they can't manage. I have some problems with that and I highlighted them here. I am also a reaslist. I have said all along (maybe not so much in this thread) that if times are hard then folk need to take whats offered and at the same time I know that companies need to make savings where they can and extra profit where they can. I hope you find someone and its mutually agreeable for both parties. I'm not telling anyone what they can or cannot do, but I'm pointing out that you do seem to want a lot. Whats the PLI for? Of course its of no interest to me, location obviously not right, but if someone near me asked the same I'd give a rate but I wouldn't take someone elses rubbish off site unless they provided a tipping site. Thats the real clincher, if someones got a yard for thier own work then why would they fill it with your rubbish?? Rates would have to be something like 200 a day plus 150 per load away. A day being 8 hours including travel time and tipping time during the day. Otherwise its not worth it. I think what your asking is unreasonable.

90% of the time i convince client to lose on site or burn I'm sorry but! You don't have the facilities to remove from site so you want to offer that as a service but get someone else in to do it, and they must have their own PLI!!! AND you want them on site for 8 hours so that means the actual drivign away of the waste (which is why you want them there in the first place) has to be done on their own time plus disposal. You don't want much do you! And I'm guessign this is so that you can undercut companies that do offer this cervice and look as though your providing a complete tree service all the while!. ANd on the pretence that your helping some one out with work! I think your actually depriving some one better suited of work. MAkes me MAD!!!!

Calm down dear!! Yeah, and then the police came and arressted everyone cos its the LAW!! I was just being righteous!! Don't take me too seariously!

Another thing- having all the materials and bits and pieces in one place before the start would have been a good idea of course. I spent a lot of time drivign round for nuts/bolts/ rivets extra aluminium wiring supllies etc. One day I'll have a fully kitted out workshop and spares/supplies etc.

Difficult question. I had hoped to do it an a week off work but the week flew by, after that I spent another three days and three weekends on it. Not full days at the weekend though. I'm makign it up as I go also, I'm not expert at this kind of thing. But with what I now know I reckong I could have done it in a week. There was actually three days when I had no truck and work booked in. Other than that its has all fitted around the work/spare time that I have. The plan would be to do it again in a few years time with a later model LDV. That should be much quicker and easier.

Rule- I guess you mean me? Just shows, experience is what earns you (us, all of us) a living. Retrainign after thirty is a very risky move IMO.

When i was thirty I started re trainign as an electrician so as to have something to fall back on. I passed the first year easy but didn't do the second year. I reaslised that even with a qualification I would have no experience of actually doign the job in a persons home. So if I set up on my own I would not be able to compete with the guys who have been doign it forever. They might charge a lot per hour but its the experience that allows them to get a to done in the time. Sound familiar? So I realsised that the years invested in tree work were for a reason. And thats why I'm still here. PLus trees are more fun.

Finally got the white board up on the other side of the truck. Just some minor finishing to do now and sign writing and tool lockers to go under the bed.

Well done Steve. My prediction was right!! Did you all use you own friction hitch set ups or was it the same for everyone?

Who won?

Just a quick question....For that £250/day, would you expect them to remove all the debris created from the job? i.e. have a truck and chipper etc? If so then you def need to hiring a company, even a small one, and paying a lot more than 250 a day.

Ok I understand your point of view then. But as a member of the public you would need to be hiring a tree company not an individual climber. That company would of course have insurance for the climbers and crew. The company may only be a one person sole trader but the insuracne should cover the ground crew also. You may find yourself a single climber to do what you want and thats fine, and I would expect them to charge you 200-250. Weather they are insured or not depends on the person, but the insurance is not valid if they don't have qualified rescue climbe ron site, hence the need to hire in a company that covers all this. So individual climbers don't tend to have (and IMO don't need) indivual liability insurance. If they have life insuracne than thats up to them. Climbing trees with chainsaws has hazards and risks to be aware of and probably more than most jobs. But if its only dangerous if you disregard all the safety guidelines. Some poeple make it more dangerous than necessary. With regard to the point of view of this thread, i.e. tree companies paying for climbers, the climbers are covered by the comapanies insurance and as the work (should/could be more regular) then 200-250 is unlikely.

60bpm is nearly asleep!!

What danger? And what insurance? We are talkign about companies hiring climbers not the public. Hired in climbers are (or should be in theory) trained, qualified, experienced so there shouldn't be any "danger" involved, some calculated risk factors maybe but these are managed to illiminate risk and don't get me started on insurance!