Rupe

The originals are 13Mb each as Jpegs. Awesome detail, shame not enough colour on that day.

I had some extra pictures taken on this job by a photographer. Unfortunatly the sun didn't come out so they weren't as good as I had hoped.

Training I would go along with. Big gay yellow box, look at us we need special kit cos we are so brave and dangerous and generally special, is not a good idea IMO. Remember I only post opinions, its all good that others think differently, that the whole point of a discussion. But if I find that in a years time I am "required" to own a big yellow box of tat, just to satisfy some pen pushers, I'll know who to send the bill to! And I don't think I'm complacent, I'm scared of heights and I don't like chainsaws much so I have that on my mind the whole time.

I think everyone should be doing whatever extra they feel they ought to. I just think the big yellow box is shouting too loudly "look at us, we are dangerous!" and its expensive. Get some extra kit, shove it under the seat, and keep on like its not really a difficult job, get paid, be happy and ignore what everyone thinks of us loppers.

If anything upgrading ourselves will earn thier admiration, after all how many industries are self policing and motivated with regards to H&S? HSE sets a standard, a minimum standard, why shouldnt we aspire iether as an industry or as individuals to elevate ourselves to an even better standard? You do seem keen on earning admiration/recognition etc recently. I think you'll find that thsi industry is extremley good at self policing, the HSE standards are set after massive amounts of advice and research from companies and individuals without whom the standards would be a lot higher. Chainsaw gloves in the tree, full body harnesses, no top handles, no climbing etc. could all be in place if it wasn't for our self policing wereby we have proved what is genuinly necessary and what isn't.

Its probably because I don't think we are special or unique. We are trained to do a job within the limits of risk that make it accpetable to do so. If we work outside of those limits then the HSE would bring out further enforcements to bring us back within the limits. Instead of saying "look, we are special, we do a really dangerous job, we need a big yellow first aid kit cos we are so dangerous" I think we should be saying, "no, we are not secial we just do a job and conform to first aid regs like everyone else" I suppose it depends on weather you think the job is dangerous or not?

Ok, as a direct answer, no I would prefer to have this particular first aid kit, partly because the cost doesn't justify it and partly because I believe first aid is more to do with the person administering it than the actual kit. If I was the injuered party then there are some workers who I know that would be useless and others that would be brilliant, I don't the kit would have much to do with it. Thats just my opinion. I do think extra bits of kit can't hurt, as has been mentioned before on this thread.

It would be worth knowing how accurate it is, and how well that information gets passed onto the emergency crews?

If you can get to just below the stumps is it then possible to use the grinder to make a ledge that you can then put the grinder on to continue grinding? I had similar problems last week though and no where near 45 degrees, so I guesss it would be difficult!

Because that is what is required from us, having a high spec first aid kit is not required. You could drive your car at 120mph everywhere and its ok cos you have a high spec first aid kit for when you crash, or reduce your speed and drive safely and carry a normal first aid kit just in case.

No Tim, I don't think its a positive move to seperate our industry from all others. That is a backward step IMO. We are just a trade industry, no different from any other, builders carpenters etc. all use power tools and have exposure to potential accidents. If we think that we should be moved to a special catogory, where we think paramedics are not good enough for us because we are so dangerouse and at such high risk then the HSE will take extra steps to bring us back in line with everybody else. Which is what has happened already and we don't need any more restrictions. They wanted to ban top handles a while back, but extensive re writting of best practices along wth improved training for work positioning has shown the HSE that we are capable of reducing the risk to an acceptable amount and therefore remian under the same headign as other trades and work places. An insistance that we are special and need extra protection from the very serious dangers we face everyday and the near death experinces of being a bloke up a tree will only hold us back IMO. First aid at work regualations include us, and we shoudl keep it that way.

Yes, I know your not quite getting what I mean. Accidents do happen in tree work as they do in every other walk of life/work. I'm saying the emphasis should be on reducing risk and having good emergency procedures in place, instead of over equiping ourselves for situations that shouldn't be occuring. I've not looked at the recent pictures on here as I'm not a fan of looking at stuff like that, I can deal with emergencies really well but usually have signs of shock after, so I would not make a good paramedic etc. so I choose not to look at accident pictures. I'm sure they show many accidents that could have been prevented, and I'm also sure that in each case the casualty is still with us, having recieved minor first aid and then proffessional help. If I'm wrong and the pictures show arterial bleeds where the casualty died because the first aid kit wasn't big enough then I'm just doubley glad I didn't look at the pictures!!

if I am unable to tell the 112 operator where I am, will the emergency services be able to locate me? If so, how quickly? Yes, immediately Thats an interesing one!!!!

I've been working for a while longer than mobile phones have been around, and even when we had them from about 95 onwards not everyone had them and the coverage was not good. It was common in those days to ask the customer if we could use the phone, not necessarrily for emergencies ( I don't remember ever doing that) but more so we could phone the boss cos we couldn't figure out the worksheets, or cos the customers was insisting that we were supposed to do 3 trees not 2 etc etc. So, mobile phones are not the great solution for emergencies. People have been calling ambulances for many more years than there have been mobiles. Part of the emergency plan would be to check you have coverage and battery power and then also not the nearest landline. If in doubt ask the customer to leave a phone on the doorstep. Customers still ask if we need a power supply. So asking for a phone for emergencies is not un reasonable?? Emergency planning and reducing risk is what the HSE requires of us, not upscaling our medical kit to such dramatic levels.

In hamas example, on a big estate, a grid reference is vital for air ambulance. My mate flies air ambulance but is not a paramedic, I'll ask him if he chats to them about this kind of thing, exept he's usually pissed when I see him!!

I think the climbing line was just one thing on a list, the point is that something can be used a tournequet, and then you are right, if you stop the bleeding you can leave the rest to the paramedics. Bleeding is our main problem. Broken limbs, minor cuts, concussion, even burns don't actually need any first aid. Something to keep the person comfy maybe, re assurance is important. I just think that if we see the need to seperate ourselves from the rest of the work place with a special "arb aid" kit then the HSE will step in and take extra measures to bring us back in line with everyone else. The important thing is to plan and to work in such a way that the normal first aid kits will be sufficient. i.e. bring the risk down not the safety kit up!

I've been out all day, but this looked like a good conversation. Good training, and that might include training in addition to the HSE requirements, and a good first aid kit with a few extras is all anyone should need. £200 odd spent on a drama box is not in itself any good to anyone. First aid is only first aid. We are not looking for the equipment and/or knowledge to take someone from a serious wound to full recovery without the help of proffesionals. I'll ask some paramedics when I get the chance, but I bet they would often rather the public left well alone and just called them sooner. We need to think of our industry as a safe working environment, and not an iminent life threatenign issue, after all its only a semi skilled trade that anybody could do with a bit of training, its not special or dangerous, and we don't need to be tough and brave, and we don't need to over sized first aid kits to try and show how dangerous a job this must be. Knowing your location and having access to a mobile phone is first priority IMO, then some rescus skills which are practiced regularly is good idea too. some plasters for your silky cuts and a blood stopper or two. Tourniquets and proper training in there use also a good idea.

Parker pretty much covered it already.

No we are not at high risk! We risk manage everything and by following safe working procedures we should be able to reduce risk to a minimum. Thats what all the training and risk assessments etc are for. Those that are at high risk throuhg lack of training etc are unlikly to ever have a first aid kit anyway. In an urban environment, a mobile phone and an ambulance will sort anything serious out. A standard first aid kit, and maybe some extra blood stopping stuff is all that is required to keep a casualty comfortable until the ambulance arrives. Anything that suggests that our industry is so high risk so as to make the normal first aid at work regulations no longer apply, is very dodgy ground IMO. We don't want to put our industry on that kind of pedestal, if it were then the HSE would close us down anyway.

Use a three wrap prussik or klemheist.

Yes, I bet the one he has is the 12mm one. The other one with the becket is a right pain to use though!

Mozza. We've had problems inthe past with groundies wearing black petzl helmets and it was clear that this is not a good idea!! I changed my health and saftey policy to say these (black) helmets are not to be used on the ground and that orange ones were to be used. We just have the orange husky helmets and they are fine. Quite cheap, never break, and even though they are not hi viz they are good enough. I also added in the safety policy that hi viz jakets are always to be available and groundies must wear them if requested by the climber i.e. on bad light days or in thick undergrowth. Of course the groundie shouldn't be under the tree in bad light/thick undergrowth etc. but you need to be able to see the groundies when they are stood 50m away out of the way, thats how you know for sure that they are not under the tree, and hi viz jackets achieve that result on those dark days. But of course if you get the hi vis stein one, you'll have something available in case you need to go to a party dressed as a power ranger!

XTC does fluff up quite a bit. Arbormaster is a more reliable 13mm IMO. I use it in the double pulley re de thing and its ok, you'd mostly only be on it for a short while. Arbclimber makes a good point about the two models, but I think he means 033 and 031 ( Ican't see a 003 on the ISC website?) . The 033 has a sheave between the pulleys so its a bit fiddly. The 031 has the two pulleys together and the spec sheet says <12mm, so XTC is pushing it a bit anyway.

Really? I just get my sent up when I'm on the stem with a big saw. Up till then I don't use a wire one. Couldn't cope with it all day long.

You want suggestions on where to shove it ???!!! Surely your only using it when chogging down stems so no worries if there is a bit too much of it??