Nigel

You have to ask the question WHY IS IT CHEAP? what fibers is it made from? why does it only conform to a Marlow Rope Standard and not to the European CE EN1891 A or B standard like every other climbing rope on the market? Invest your money in a product which has proven its self time and time again and offers good prolonged life.

Firstly before you all get to excited this product will not be available until late 2011 This is the all new helmet designed by Pfanner. It was recently unveiled to the distributors at Pfanners 20 year celebration last weekend. If you would like to know more visit our stand at the APF where representitives of Pfanner will be on hand. It is early days to fix an exact price but you will be looking around £140.00

The Explorer which now replaces the Bergsteiger is now fitted with a VIBRAM Sole and is listed at £159

Please visit our website which shows the new range of STEIN Chainsaw boots which also shows the pricing. Fletcher Stewart All these will be on show and available at the APF from all good retailers the range of Bergsteiger boots is now replaced with this new range with new style soles and other features.

If the equipment is invoiced to a company it should have vat charged on it even if it is for the bosses personal use. So invoiced to ABC company vat is charged, invoiced made out to fred bloggs no vat. but if fred bloggs buys more than one helmet it is assumed by the vat office that this could be for an employee and vat will be collected

No, what is meant if an employer is buying them for an employee they must be charged vat (the employer is charged not the employee). The employer is charged vat whether they are vat registered or not. This thread will open a debate which most will not want to bring out into the open as most people turn a blind eye to the situation.

Just to let you know the new STEIN QUEST GTX will be available at the APF. The first shipment will arrive just intime.

Published on the HM Revenue and Customs website is a document (701/23 Protective Equipment) which explains fully the situation regarding the charging of VAT on both HELMETS and SAFETY BOOTS. This document explains who should pay VAT and who is exempt along with the products which should and should not have VAT charged upon. All information has been taken from the HM Revenue and Customs document. Although some items are classified as being zero-rated this will depend on who is purchasing the products and how the products are sold. How do protective Boots and Helmets qualify for zero-rating? In order for products to qualify they must fit in with one of the following conditions: 1) There is a clear definition of the difference between a Safety Shoe and a Safety Boot. Generally Safety Shoes fall outside of this category and qualify to have VAT charged. 2) Products which qualify as zero-rated must be manufactured to one of the appropriate European or British Standard; These are: Boots EN 345:1995 & BS EN 345:1993 Safety footwear for professional use EN 346:1992 & BS EN 346:1993 Protective footwear for professional use Helmets EN 397:1992 & BS EN 397:1995 Industrial Safety Helmets EN 812:1997 & BS EN 812:1998 Industrial Bump Caps Please note: Standard EN12492 is not listed in the category, this will be addressed later. 3) The product must bear a mark indicating conformity to the standard 4) The product is for industrial use 5) The product must not be supplied to persons for use by their employees Product supply chain, who is buying the product? 1) Supplies from a manufacturer to a wholesaler who in turn supplies a retailer can be invoiced zero-rated. Example: Fletcher Stewart can supply and invoice a dealer at zero-rate with product so long as the product falls into the categories above. 2) You cannot zero-rate helmets or boots to an employer for the use by their employees. Example: If an organisation purchases multiple items of product that fall in the categories above for them to give to their employees you must charge that customer VAT on the product. Remember they can reclaim the VAT if registered. 3) You can zero-rate listed products for customers/individuals who are purchasing the item for their sole use. Example: If a customer buys a single pair of boots for themselves, you know these are for them as they try them on at the counter you can zero-rate their invoice. Before you zero-rate any supply you should establish that your customer is not an employer purchasing boots or helmets for use by their employees: This can be established by asking yourself: 1. Does the customers trading style suggest that they are an employer 2. Quantity ordered suggest bulk purchase by an employer for use by their employees 3. Nature of the contract indicates a trade order – such as a number of pairs of boots or helmets paid for by one customer for delivery to individuals. Are accessories zero-rated? If you fit accessories such as visors or ear protectors as an integral part of a qualifying helmet (see list) you can zero-rate the supply of the complete helmet. Accessories supplied on their own should be invoiced with the standard rate of VAT. What if I sell a helmet rated to EN12492? This standard of helmet is not listed within the category of zero-rated products; this helmet is generally used within the leisure industry as the standard for EN12492 is for Mountaineering and climbing. However this standard of helmet is used widely within the work place. As stated in question 1, what makes a product qualify to be zero-rated it states “The product is for industrial use” so long as you can prove or the customer can prove it is for “Industrial Use” this can then qualify. If the helmet is supplied as a complete item with a visor and ear defenders this should then make it qualify for Industrial Use (use at work) If the helmet is supplied on its own there is a valid argument that this could just be used for recreational climbing which is classed as leisure which does not qualify to be zero-rated. If the helmet cannot be fitted with a visor and ear defenders we would suggest that VAT is charged on the product as the argument of “Industrial Use” would be very weak. As a distributor we will charge VAT to the retailer on all helmets which carry the EN12942 standard. All accessories will also be charged with VAT. Helmets with the EN397 rating will be invoiced at zero-rate. Document notes: If you require further guidance on this matter we suggest you contact your local tax office. Information taken from the HM Revenue and Customs website document 701/23 Protective Equipment dated March 2002. No updates to this document were listed on the website This information is for reference only and could change without notice

New STEIN SKYLINE 100% Dyneema Throwline 2mm Diameter 8-Stand Dyneema 450kg Average Strength Available in Orange & Yellow Supplied on a 50m Spool and in an easy stack container SRP £22.00 + vat Available for purchase at the APF and from all good retailers

Hi Pete, following your post i contacted the scabbard manufacturer and they will produce us some left handed versions. Once they are available i will PM you.

We are still finalising the total layout of the APF Stand and will try to arrange an area for trying the saws.

Over the last year we have spent a lot of time searching for a good quality handsaw with a good quality scabbard. We listened to the industry as to what was required in a saw and have developed this new range. These saws have a superior combination of a high performance blade with a cushioned rubber handle and are supplied as standard with a belting material scabbard. This is the only saw on the market supplied as standard with this type of scabbard. S300 300mm Straight Saw c/w Scabbard SRP £29.00+vat C330 330mm Curved Saw c/w Scabbard SRP £32.00+vat C390 390mm Curved Saw c/w Scabbard SRP £36.00+vat These will be available for purchase at the APF and from all good retailers More information and technical specifications are available from our website Fletcher Stewart

Highscale, as a distributor we have an obligation to supply the industry with certified products, you would be the first to complain if you had purchased an item which was then condemed as unfit as it did not meet industry standards. If information is given incorrectly on here we have to correct this before you mis-inform to many other people. Regarding your comment about your contact at Wesspur this company mainly supply the American market with little understanding of the European Standards and Laws.

No mention of CE on the website?? the spliced eye has no CE mark on the label

Bluemoon has never been made in the CE Version. One dealer in the UK brought some in thinking it was CE but is is NOT. If they spliced it and marked it as CE EN1891 (A) then they are in the wrong.

I will try and explain the different ropes mentioned: Blaze is a totally different rope to Posion Ivy and all other ropes mentioned. It is classed as 11mm 24-Strand and is EN1891(B). This was Yales first 11mm Climbing Line. Regarding Poison Ivy (American Version) and Blue Moon these are the same rope 11.7mm 24-strand and carry no CE Mark and will not pass CE Tests. Poison Ivy (CE Version) and Limelight are the same rope. To pass CE they have a different construction inner core than the American Version. these are 11.7mm 24-Strand EN1891(A). This rope is available in various colours around the World. Poison Ivy belongs to Sherrills, Limelight belongs to Bishops, Blue Tongue belongs to Cannings, we can carry on. Fletcher Stewart had the choice to bring along another version of this rope and name it what we liked, but we opted to improve and bring you something different in the form of IMORI. Now Imori is the same construction as CE Poison Ivy but with the added feature and benefit of a fluffed fibre to bulk the rope out to feel like a 13mm. This rope is actually 12mm 24-strand EN1891(A). Hope this explains???

Hi all, I have asked YALE CORDAGE to comment on this thread to clear any confusion and hopefully answer some of your questions: Dear ArbTalk members, There seems to be some questions on the XTC 12 splice so I will try to set the record straight. 1). StuartC44 - you may have very well obtained an eye in this rope but the tucks interfere with the actual braid angle of the rope and therefore that eye is now probably about 1/2 the tensile strength of the original strength. We have done testing on this in the past and believe me, if it were producing good strength ratings we never would have discontinued this product with eye splices. 2). Bender, this may be worse than a Bowline as we have had good results with knots on XTC-12 strand products, they are tight, remain round, and hold their shape when knotted, - we have recently done excessive testing with UMASS and the Tree Fund here at Yale on this very study. 3). High scale - ropes must be spliced to the manufacturers specifications to remain within the boudaries ofany warranty. I do not know of any tightly woven 12 strand arborist ropes Yale, or Samson that have a published splice method. 4). Nod - yes, we used to have a programmed machine that would elongate the pik length for about 2 feet at the eye so that a brummel splice could be performed on the rope. This was a very good method and achieve full strength for the rope. The sales dwindled in the spliced version, and the machine was making more scraps than good so the eye splice version was discontinued. and for that reason, it is no longer splicable. 5). Peter, you have the last of the eye spliced Yale XTC-12 on the planet Earth, but Im suprised you would try to sell it with the link to Samson Ropes.....(tisk tisk) 6). Highscale, to clarify, the ropes weave pattern would elongate for just about 2 feet. The rope was then spliced by hand. Not machine assistaed like our 16 strand splices. I hope this helps clarify things. In short, yeah, I can splice a rope that is deemed nonsplicable as well. But is it safe? In your case, I would say, no it is not safe. Its been tested and has failed repeatedly with low breaks right at the base of the eye. In fact, if you woudl like to send us your splices, we would be happy to test them and send to you the report. Once again, its not our objective to confuse people, it is to supply a safe and reliable product that is fit for purpose to its intended use. If you should require an eye splice in a climbing line, may I suggest a 16 strand rope 1/2" If this is in a rigging rope, exactly how are you using the eye splice and what benefit does it add to your system? Thanks all, I hope this helps. Jamie Goddard, Yale Cordage

The Cougar carries no CE Mark and has never been tested to see if it will comply. We have several samples here sent from Weaver a couple of weeks ago to get some feedback to see if it is woth them investing a large amount of money to get the CE Certification. Verdict is still out at present

Below is a picture of the mock up of the SRT system currently being developed. The hardware again is made by ISC exclusivly for STEIN. This system is still in its infancy and will be deloved further over the coming months.

Watch this space!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would like to take this opportunity in personally thanking the AA for another great show; the numbers attending fell just shy of 2000 which is excellent taking into account the current climate. This was only achieved though those people who spent the time in visiting and supporting the only dedicated ARB show in the UK. It was great to meet up with old colleges and new discussing the industry and putting the world to rights. This is a great networking show and long may it continue. On a personal basis I would publicly like to thank the guys from Kingswood Training who put on a great series of Practical Rigging Demonstrations for us which from the pictures created a large crowd and a lot of interest. I would also like to thank Andrew Cowan for his demonstrations and Workshop on the correct use of the Airspade. Also a thank you to Reg Coates who was on hand to explain the virtues of the RC Rigging Devices. For all that visited the show and spent time on our stand giving positive feedback on the new range of products we were launching thank you. Nigel Fletcher

The first shipment of IMORI arrived here yesterday, we had to air-frieght it in so we had it in time for the ARB Show. All the main suppliers will revieved stock for the show. Any stock remaining will be issued out to UK Dealers after the show. Call your Yale Stockist and place an order now if you are not attending the show.

Hi Gerbutt, If you want to have a general discussion i will only be to pleased to talk the process though bringing new ideas to market. Come and see me at the ARB Show. Tommy_B - For clarity STEIN is a registered brand belonging to Fletcher Stewart.