D Mc

David, I don't believe coronet cuts to be in the best interest of a living tree. The tree in the picture you posted, if I recall, had a compromised root system (structural issues?) with potential targets. So a reduction was required. However, that reduction could have been achieved without the coronet cuts. Reduced by standard practices the tree would have experienced the same benefits of weight reduction and wind load reduction while at the same time enhancing its chances of compartmentalization and subsequent healing which would have also prolonged its life in its setting. All this and maintaining the original beauty of the tree. To say that the tree appears hale and hearty doesn't buy much justification. Many topped and whacked trees live through it. I like innovation. I like thinking outside the box. And I think coronet cuts look fantastic in the right situation....which is a dead tree in a natural environment. Dave

Irresponsible tree trimming practices know no national boundaries. As professionals our eyes are drawn quickly to procedures that seem questionable. I learned early in my career not to be too quick to judge. Because often there is a reason. As professionals we tend to fall into a style of pruning that fits our location and our clientele preventing us from understanding what may be necessary in a totally different situation. I don't like rules; there are too many exceptions. As arborists we need to be able to use all of our knowledge to preserve and maintain trees. However, I do agree with Butch on the coronet cuts. Dave

I run the 660, full wrap handle and with a 36" and 28" bar. I think this is a great saw. I don't have much experience with the current line of Huskies but have used most of the old saws. I think it is amazing the technology can produce so much power in such a smooth running, light weight saw. Even with the 36" bar, I do consider this a light weight saw. Dave

David, you are a smart guy and your heart certainly seems to be in the right place. The methods you are promoting; coronet cuts, veteranizing trees; are to reverse altered situations created from decades of do-gooders, thinking they were doing the right thing. Can you be sure you are not falling into the same trap? Mankind has a tendency to believe he has "found" the answer and has a quest for "fixing" perceived imbalances. And as you stated, the people before us truly believed they were creating a better environment for the use of those forests. To have a natural place to enjoy, I believe, requires a "look but don't touch" philosophy. Dave

True enough, but there are also many, many similarities. I have been reticent to become involved in this discussion but what the heck you asked. First off I think there needs to be a clarification on the conservation, ecological balance and arborists. I have hopefully, posted a picture taken in my front yard doing one of my other pasttimes of RC gliders. In the background the mountain range you see is the start of the Selway/Bitterroot Wilderness area. This encompasses 1.3 million acres. It is only the 3rd largest in the lower 48 US states. The wilderness designation was set in 1964 and locks the land into its pristeen state. THAT is conservation. There are many that believe that allowing nature to take its course has tremendous benefits and cannot be duplicated by man's awkward attempts. I feel trying to equate residential arboriculture with conservation-based forest management is not appropriate. What is good for the country may not be in the best interest of the individual foot soldier. We are here to take care of the foot soldiers. The trees we deal with day-in and day-out exist outside the forest and interface with our existance. Therefore requiring a totally different management plan than an entire ecosystem. I take great pride in my skill in both pruning and removals. When I do a reduction on any tree I expect noone looking upon that tree to notice it has been trimmed but only to notice and admire its natural grace. I trim for the health and wellbeing of the tree. I offer PHC advice for the environment of the tree. This is what conservation-based, residential arboriculture should be. A blending of what the tree needs in relation to its impact on the environrment in which it stands. In my world, I would never spec a coronet cut on live wood. Believe it or not, I have recommended coronets on dead habitat stubs and dead monoliths because I understand the aesthetics of a natural looking break as opposed to a large, flat chainsaw cut in a natural setting. These are just some of my views and I mean no offence but even though I don't agree with some of your views I still feel very strongly about the care of trees and the environment. Dave

It sounds like you have a strong idea of what you would like to do. However, since individual plantings of large trees can have a high mortality rate, in memorials a method to ensure longevity for generations would be to plant a grove of younger, smaller specimens. This doesn't have to be a large grove, just more than a single tree. We have seen bereaved families devastated all over again when the memorial tree they had planted died. Dave

The fears reflected in the above quote as it relates to a base-accessible belay or lowering device for the rescue/working system is frequently brought up. But please give this some thought. If you feel the people below you might be actively thinking of harming you (i.e., untieing or fiddling with your anchor point) or your work site in insecure to the point that someone might wander in and compromise your belay, this must be changed. This is not a realistically safe environment. Do you actually work in situations where someone on your ground crew is actively thinking of harming you? Would you rely on these same people for any other type of rescue situation? This is a scenario where a lot of bad things could happen to you or the public. The climber is dependent on the people below in a public work environment. Dave

I have been reading this thread like so many others that are out of my realm of experience to inform myself on how the rest of the world does things. So I am not well versed at all in your certification systems. But I can tell from reading Laz' 2 posts they have the sad ring of truth and, consequently, were quite depressing. There is one point that I am well versed in and that is producing a safe tree worker. Back before all the certification programs, the only way to learn was through apprenticeship. This was a slow process. It took 3 to 5 years on an average to go from basic eager employee to a competent tree person. It would take another 5 years of day-in, day-out work for that person to amass the experiences to make judgment calls in all situations. I just don't see how classroom study, with pencil and paper and text, can be expected to make a dent in what is required to work safely. I feel there is just no short cut to this learning curve and apprenticeship or internship should be mandatory. Apprenticeship is mandatory in many professions that have no where NEAR the hazard risk involved as in tree work. With that in mind steps should be taken that would allow this; i.e., incentive for companies to make it worth their while to invest in the time necessary to produce truly safe tree workers. Dave

Drew, that's fantastic! Can't wait to try it myself. This is why I love these forums. Thanks for sharing. Dave

Exactly what I would have done. Tie off the heavy end...trim out the light end. The cuts become more obvious as you get into the job. Dave

We moved to Montana in 1984 and at that time I had already been a climber for over 15 years. Working in Northern California I had the priviledge of climbing some of the most magnificent trees on Earth. With the move to Montana I thought perhaps this was the time to look into other less physically demanding careers. Some of the things I tried were taxodermy (which is real big up here), custom bow making (as in archery), construction and ranch work. Also I had a connection for briar wood from the island of Corsica and spent awhile making custom pipes. Of all of those, ranch work was most to my liking but pay was so low that I couldn't support myself, let alone a family. The main thing was that I just don't feel right unless I am up a tree. There is something about being high in a canopy that must be similar to what a sailor feels on the ocean. The addictive feeling of movement and connection, just a sea of green instead of a sea of blue. Dave

McNeill Not too sure of my lineage. My grandpa was a tight-lipped, mean SOB who ran a bar in New Jersey. Wouldn't talk about the past. So I'm thinking I may not come from the noblest of blood. Be that as it may, at least in my mind, I'm a prince in the trees! Dave

I'm not sure I fall into the "average" category here, I don't feel particularly old, but reading your guys' posts I feel like Grandfather Time. Started climbing in the late 60s with Ed Hobbs when he was just starting out. I realize things are alot different now, especially for you folks in the UK and Europe. The regulation requirements seem to prevent starting this career at a young age. This is a career of high turnovers. But for those who stick it out, it is not only highly rewarding but somewhat addictive. I have tried several times to find other employment realizing that one can't climb trees forever. I just can't do it. Everything else bores me to tears. So climbing forever is my only option. Dave

My biggest fear as a young tree climber was that I would get too old to climb trees, which I love. And, therefore, would have to get a real job! (suit, tie, you know, that kind of rubbish) Quite frankly, I still worry about that once in awhile. Dave

That is oh so true! My wife and I work together, pretty much do everything together. (I know, weird, huh?) She's a really good, experienced groundy, 5 ft tall, 100 lbs, pick up logs that make most men groan. Well, one day we were removing cottonwoods in a tight back yard. I had finished stripping off the brush and was just down to bucking down the poles. They were only 18 - 20" lengths, 14" in dia, only about 40 - 50 lbs but I was 35' up. Everything was going smoothly, pushed off one log and glanced down and there she was. It was heading right for her. Couldn't believe my eyes. Just a momentary lapse in our timing put her in the danger zone. I was so shocked by the unexpectedness of it that all I could do was watch. The log actually brushed her shoulder on its way past. One of the worst feelings I have ever had. I can take getting hurt alot easier than the thought of hurting someone else, let alone my wife. David

Thanks folks! I knew this would be a great place to find out more about tea. We have Earl Grey tea here. Do you think it is the same all over the world? Is Yorkshire tea better than Earl Grey? How is it different? Boiling fresh water, no problem. (We use filtered rain water for drinking and cooking.) I have been letting my bags steep for approximately 5 minutes. (Still clear not murky.) We usually get coffee at client's houses here and it almost ALWAYS needs cream and sugar (even though we drink both black at home). Dave

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I was having trouble with the search feature. I figure there is nobody better on the planet than you guys to answer this question. "What makes a good cup of tea?" I need specifics. I have been drinking a fair amount of tea lately. About every time I click on this forum. And got to wondering, how do YOU guys make tea? Am I doing this right? Tea bag and hot water? I'm only partly joking. I really do want to know. Dave

I am sorry if this is even more off topic, but, Monkeyd, when you first go to use that set up leave the tails on your termination knots a little longer. They experience much higher loading in this application than our friction hitches. I use the same set up on my Glide and found it takes a bit of time for the knots to really set and until that time there is a bit of tail creep. Dave

Very wise words. I wish more people would think like that. Though I do use this technique more often than not on trim jobs. Dave

Ian, That was just my point. If you have to preset a line that requires both ends of your rope coming down on the same side of the tree without being split by the multiple branches of a thick canopy or if you need to set a cambium or friction saver, the method described above is actually much faster and easier to install. Though this is a significant benefit as a time saving factor the aerial rescue capability from the ground is one of the terms tossed out as kind of a side benefit, but like I said, really, think about that. The safety benefits are so far reaching that I am surprised that more research has not been done to develop this type of system to its maximum potential. And I do believe there is room for improvement. David

Not only did I get my wife into the trees, but she carries her own saw and helps with the work. This was a big step for her seeing as how she is afraid of heights. But there is something about arb gear and training in its use that instills confidence. She really enjoys it! Dave

I use the set up described, pulley tied onto the end of a rope with the rope anchored to the base of the tree (whoopie sling and port-a-wrap) all the time. I originally started using it because I am of the age where guys seem to start keeling over for no apparent reason and I wanted a simple way for my work partner (my wife) to be able to get me on the ground without a big fuss. I was originally a bit pissed thinking one more age-related compromise but actually this set up has far more advantages than I was aware of. Not only is an aerial rescue simple to perform from the ground (think about that) it is extremely fast to set up. Getting one end of the line to come down where you want it, tying on the pulley and your climbing line and then pulling the whole set up back up to the selected tie in point is the fastest way to isolate both ends of your climbing line in a thick canopy. It does require care chosing your tie in point because of the additional leverage, but I have not found this to be a problem. With this setup you can foot lock up both lines and then tie in, or tie in from the ground and work your way up. It's really nice. All I have is this one small pic. I don't know if it will help you at all, but here it is. Dave

This is just an old guy's observation so take that for what it is worth. But it seems to me that mankinds' biggest mistakes have been in ignoring nature or trying to mimic it. There is a need for places that people can go to study and enjoy and relax. We have some such places set aside here and they are designated wilderness. No motorized equipment or vehicles allowed. If we need an area that is "natural", why do we feel we have to do more than what is already being done by nature itself? David

Tim, I appreciate the heads up and yes I am aware of the dangers of using the "William" (HMS style) carabiner. My camera evidently distorts the image somewhat as the carabiners look wider but then so do I! They are actually the Petzl Am'Ds the ones recommended by the manufacturer, ART. When I first heard about the problem with the ball, I tried forcing it through the carabiners and just couldn't do it. I thought about removing it, as some have done, but every once in awhile it comes in handy. As a rule I don't "pull" on it. For limb walking and faster descents, I use a twisting motion with my left hand. (Usually only my ring finger will be pressing against the furlow.) This gives me fairly precise control. How do you like yours? D Mc

That's it. D Mc