Our industry

I've been considering recently how we are percieved from outside and I guess we're a minority pressure group. Also, we're a bit lost really. Too many factions and associations, no direction no leadership. Importantly no presence and no marketing!

Now I know we sit broadly in two camps on the 'talk. Camp A are in the game for the benefit of trees and Camp B quite like trees but do it for the euros.

I'm in Camp A and I guess I'm addressing this to them (though not exclusively!).

• Do we have a overinflated sense of our own importance as part of the wider picture?
   
  
• Do non-arbs manage trees adequately without us?
   
  
• Why don't we get involved with the Forestry Commission? After all, they've got the money, they've got the national strategies for urban trees...
  

IMO we just aren't taken seriously enough, you can see this in the prices we are working to, and to answer your questions here goes

A, some have a very high sense of self importance, some irritatingly so

B, no most non arbs do not manage trees adequately

C, I have no idea why we don't get involved with the FC maybe its seen as them and us, I've had nothing to do with the FC in over 20 years in this profession

I like to consider myself in both camps Tony. I don't love trees enough to get bogged down by the science and bilogy side of things but I also don't love money anywhere near enough for that to be the motivating factor.

Its work, and its outside and its involves climbing/logic/planning and a nerdy desire to collect shiny gadgets.

I like doing nice work to nice trees, but bad tree work is still tree management and "trees" in general don't suffer from individual cases of bad work and many thrive after poor decisions have been made in the past.

So as far as our industry is concerned, yes I think we have a way over inflated sense of our own importance, they are only trees and we are only service providers.

I have done some research as to what the client expectations were prior to engaging a contractor. The answers seem consistanlty to suggest the most clients expect some halfwit inbred with fingers missing or a beardy weardy to turn up three days late, if at all, and do some grunting before leaving them with a quote written in crayon on the back of a rizzla packet.

Many clients just don't believe that relatively educated and presentable humans would be doing such a job, and so their expectations are so low that in many cases they accept un-insured bodgers (or boskers) as being the norm, and just don't bother trying to find anybody better.

Until this image is changed we will forever fight this battle, but for many its not worth it and I personally look toward commercial contracts where a level of proffessionalism is required/expected, then all I need to do is deliver instead of havign to try and educate each individual that wants there one and only self seeded sycamore reduced by 50% because it blocks direct light for the one day of the year they want to use the garden.

i love trees ,if money was n ot an issue i would still be involved ! wish i could learn and educate my self untill im 40 and know almost everything and every tecnique but i need to do what i love as best i can to earn when i can ,good thread !

great post rupe

IMO we just aren't taken seriously enough, you can see this in the prices we are working to, and to answer your questions here goes

 

A, some have a very high sense of self importance, some irritatingly so

 

B, no most non arbs do not manage trees adequately

 

C, I have no idea why we don't get involved with the FC maybe its seen as them and us, I've had nothing to do with the FC in over 20 years in this profession

I think that self importance is a coping mechanism! Napoleon syndrome if you like - overcompensationg for the percieved external opinion.

You see I think most trees are managed just fine without specialist advice because most people don't manage them at all! I've often wondered whilst surveying tree number 36,216 in the rain along a roadside whether there is any statistically significant difference between the failure rate between whats left after i've been through and an unmanage equal population. I bet it aint much.

I only mentioned the FC because they are an organisation with some clout (rightly or wrongly)!

great post rupe

great thread Tony.

speaking as an Arb wife (forestry & tree surgery), i often feel that people I meet within the whole industry fall into two distinct camps - 1, love the outdoors the work, trees and general love of what they do, 2, the glory boys I would call them who love being in their kit basicly, and do it solely for the money and percieved kudos of the job?

as for associations - pass

as for pricing structures, being taken seriously by customers or potential customers, sometimes i feel we are being taken the p... of sometimes - as you quote and get "well what if i pay cash and can you do it for less, or £XXX amount for that - ill do it myself!" you wouldnt haggle with the grocer for your shopping or the mechanic for your new exhaust - obviously we always recommend to the customer to ask for multiple quotes - it keeps you on your toes and keeps the industry moving along, but when you are fighting for work and the local "milkman" or whatever says Ill do it for £50 or whatever your never going to compete

and the problem comes i feel that customers dont realise our costs to stay bona fide

training, insurance, machinery, wages, membership of said associatons!

our industry has had bad press from the fly by night transit tree men who come along and do a job then travel to the next town and arent seen again

the forestry commission doesnt really want to get in talks with contractors unless you are buying standing timber from them and then you have to have all your papers and insurances etc in place, which isnt a bad thing - this could sort the wheat from the chaff by if they then released a nationwide list of bonafide contractors who meet their standards and this could be accessed from the web by potential clients.

just my thoughts, hope this adds a bit of spice to the topic, bored and got flu !! my husband will probably come in later and say what have you written now! and totaly disagree with this post

I like to consider myself in both camps Tony. I don't love trees enough to get bogged down by the science and bilogy side of things but I also don't love money anywhere near enough for that to be the motivating factor.

 

Its work, and its outside and its involves climbing/logic/planning and a nerdy desire to collect shiny gadgets.

 

I like doing nice work to nice trees, but bad tree work is still tree management and "trees" in general don't suffer from individual cases of bad work and many thrive after poor decisions have been made in the past.

 

So as far as our industry is concerned, yes I think we have a way over inflated sense of our own importance, they are only trees and we are only service providers.

 

I have done some research as to what the client expectations were prior to engaging a contractor. The answers seem consistanlty to suggest the most clients expect some halfwit inbred with fingers missing or a beardy weardy to turn up three days late, if at all, and do some grunting before leaving them with a quote written in crayon on the back of a rizzla packet.

 

Many clients just don't believe that relatively educated and presentable humans would be doing such a job, and so their expectations are so low that in many cases they accept un-insured bodgers (or boskers) as being the norm, and just don't bother trying to find anybody better.

 

Until this image is changed we will forever fight this battle, but for many its not worth it and I personally look toward commercial contracts where a level of proffessionalism is required/expected, then all I need to do is deliver instead of havign to try and educate each individual that wants there one and only self seeded sycamore reduced by 50% because it blocks direct light for the one day of the year they want to use the garden.

I agree. I suppose every 'craft' trade has its stereotypes. I was aiming at the commercial end really I guess - how other professions see us.

My experience is that we're a bit annoying. Its been our strategy to use the legislation to force our points and agenda and its been to our disadvantage.

I agree. I suppose every 'craft' trade has its stereotypes. I was aiming at the commercial end really I guess - how other professions see us.

 

My experience is that we're a bit annoying. Its been our strategy to use the legislation to force our points and agenda and its been to our disadvantage.

We do ecology, land surveying & landscape architecture as well as arb consultancy. People listen intentely to what we have to say on all fronts apart from trees, they arent important to them, just a thorn in their palm.

When we just did arb consultancy i thought it was an important aspect, but know see it as a minor item that ticks a box. We as tree men know trees are important for many reasons but commercially they are either a fortune to manage or in the way of a new development.