Pick-up speed limits

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

You see a lot of Sprinter vans doing 80+ on dual carriageways.

 

Wonder how many get done or even know

 

I wonder how many traffic police know the rules?

I know I've been followed at 70 or so in the pickup and not been stopped!

 

That's my query....

 

It obviously IS confusing since we can't seem to get a straight answer....

 

If a pick up (Ranger/DMax/Hillux etc) is >2040kg it cannot satisfy the dual purpose vehicle scenario.

 

I doubt all traffic police are clear on the subject BUT an automated camera will simply cross ref a database and issue a ticket - no discussion!

 

It's no so much a question of what speed the vehicle / driver CAN do, but what they SHOULD do so as to avoid the potential for points / fine....

[Richard 1234]

That's my query....

 

 

 

It obviously IS confusing since we can't seem to get a straight answer....

 

 

 

If a pick up (Ranger/DMax/Hillux etc) is >2040kg it cannot satisfy the dual purpose vehicle scenario.

 

 

 

I doubt all traffic police are clear on the subject BUT an automated camera will simply cross ref a database and issue a ticket - no discussion!

 

 

 

It's no so much a question of what speed the vehicle / driver CAN do, but what they SHOULD do so as to avoid the potential for points / fine....

 

 

In that case my pickup is allowed to do 70 on the motorway as the police car that followed me will have been equipped with ANPR.

Or is that just for the fixed/average speed cameras?

[Stoatally]

I doubt ANPR would be able to cross reference a database that had ULW as between 1950-2100kg and work out if it was a dual purpose or not. ANPR more likely to be used to cross ref tax, mot etc. Arguably if it checks mot database it could look at testable class. Does your pickup have the correct mot? Class 4 would be dual purpose, class 7 would be heavier pickups and vans between 3,001-3500kg

 

I suppose there could be a bigger argument as to invalid mot causing invalid insurance etc.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I don't know any of the answers!

 

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it!!

 

Luckily, we have a government that is committed to reducing red tape 😟

 

Just about to press "accept" on a new Hilux double cab but trying to understand the possible implications.

 

It was the (rather teasy) Isuzu dealer that pointed out the potential speed limits on Ranger/Hilux due to weight (after I'd told him I had a better deal on a Hilux than he offered on DMax)

[Treewolf]

The situation is actually very simple: if your vehicle genuinely IS a Dual Purpose Vehicle as defined in the Road Vehciles (Construction and Use) Regulations (1986) (as amended) then it is subject to DPV speed limits, which are the same as a 'normal' car. If your vehicle is a goods vehicle, heavy or light, the it is subject to the appropriate reduced speed limits.

 

There is much confusion on this subject, and I have heard first hand evidence that many speed awareness course "instructors" do not know the legal situation re. DPVs and consequently give misinformation.

 

The definition of a Dual Purpose Vehicle is reasonably complex and very specific. To stand any chance of being a DPV the vehicle in question must have an unladen weight (note, unladen, not kerb weight or "Mass In Service" etc) which does not exceed 2040kg.

 

Note also that DPV status and hence speed limits are not affected at all, and have no effect upon, vehicle taxation classes (the people who tell you that because your Defender is in the N1 tax class it is therefore subject to a reduced speed limit are talking complete rubbish).

[Treewolf]

I don't know any of the answers!

 

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it!!

 

Luckily, we have a government that is committed to reducing red tape

 

Just about to press "accept" on a new Hilux double cab but trying to understand the possible implications.

 

It was the (rather teasy) Isuzu dealer that pointed out the potential speed limits on Ranger/Hilux due to weight (after I'd told him I had a better deal on a Hilux than he offered on DMax)

 

If the Hilux has an unladen weight not exceeding 2040kg and has full-time or part-time all-wheel-drive, then it is a Dual Purpose vehcile and is subject to normal car spped limits.

 

Check the unladen weight figure though, since trucks and 4x4s have been getting heavier of late.

 

A quick Google suggests that the heaviest 2016 Hilux 4x4 double cab has a kerb weight of 2080kg. Since the kerb weight usually includes a driver (70kg usually) and a full tank of fuel, then the unladen weight must be under 2040kg, thus meaning that it is still a DPV. Be careful bolting too many goodies on though, since if they are bolted on they may be considered to increase the unladen weight (since they are not readily removable).

Edited September 13, 2016 by Treewolf

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

The situation is actually very simple: if your vehicle genuinely IS a Dual Purpose Vehicle as defined in the Road Vehciles (Construction and Use) Regulations (1986) (as amended) then it is subject to DPV speed limits, which are the same as a 'normal' car. If your vehicle is a goods vehicle, heavy or light, the it is subject to the appropriate reduced speed limits.

 

There is much confusion on this subject, and I have heard first hand evidence that many speed awareness course "instructors" do not know the legal situation re. DPVs and consequently give misinformation.

 

The definition of a Dual Purpose Vehicle is reasonably complex and very specific. To stand any chance of being a DPV the vehicle in question must have an unladen weight (note, unladen, not kerb weight or "Mass In Service" etc) which does not exceed 2040kg.

 

Note also that DPV status and hence speed limits are not affected at all, and have no effect upon, vehicle taxation classes (the people who tell you that because your Defender is in the N1 tax class it is therefore subject to a reduced speed limit are talking complete rubbish).

 

If the Hilux has an unladen weight not exceeding 2040kg and has full-time or part-time all-wheel-drive, then it is a Dual Purpose vehcile and is subject to normal car spped limits.

 

Check the unladen weight figure though, since trucks and 4x4s have been getting heavier of late.

 

A quick Google suggests that the heaviest 2016 Hilux 4x4 double cab has a kerb weight of 2080kg. Since the kerb weight usually includes a driver (70kg usually) and a full tank of fuel, then the unladen weight must be under 2040kg, thus meaning that it is still a DPV. Be careful bolting too many goodies on though, since if they are bolted on they may be considered to increase the unladen weight (since they are not readily removable).

 

These 2 posts seem to make the most sense so far wrt getting to the crux of the matter.

 

I take the point about 'bolt-ons" too, I'd been thinking along similar lines regarding the canopy. I would argue (wether it would be accepted or not is another question) that a 'no-drill' quick fix canopy ought not to be considered as adding to the unladen weight but rather as a part of the load carrying capacity...

 

Haven't heard back from the dealer yet! It will be interesting to get a definitive answer on (a) kerb weight & (b) unladen weight and if (a) is (b) plus driver and a tank of gas.

 

[Justme]

I have asked a policman I know that works in the fast responce APNR unit how this would be delt with on the road side. His initial responce was that if its listed as under 2040kg on the system or a google finds it listed as such they would treat it as a car. He is going to look into it more for me. As he was not 100% on it I guess it does not happen often. He works a large city / Mway network.

 

This is the full regs re "dual purpose"

 

dual-purpose vehicle

a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—

 

(i)is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or

(ii)satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—

(a)the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;

(b)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—

(i)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and

(ii)be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and

©the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.

 

 

So some crew cabs are Dual purpose IF they comply with part two in its entirety.

 

The definition of unladen weight is harder.

 

Does it include fuel, oils, driver ect ect?

 

Vehicle makers all use a different method to show curb weight so CW cant be used.

 

This is what the gov site says in one place

 

Unladen weight

The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items.

 

It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road.

 

It doesn’t include the weight of the fuel or, if it’s an electric vehicle, the batteries.

 

but on another gov site is says designed weight so extras dont count. Yet the link below says they do count (and below is the law).

 

 

unladen weight the weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment.

 

The last quote is the actual law. Everything else is interpretation. Only a court can decide what a law actually means.

 

So if stopped do not accept a ticket, caution or NIP unless they take you to a weigh bridge, make you unload the vehicle, drain ALL water based fluids (coolant, screen wash ect) & fuels, remove all loose items / tools ect & then you are over 2040kg, ensuring they use the 5% tolerance.

 

 

All quotes from http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3/made

 

Or drive slower lol

 

Re van speed limits, more & more are now getting tickets as more advanced speed cameras are coming into use.

[Stoatally]

The bit that stops a lot of crew cabs being DPV is the glazing requirement. And in the arb world probably the fact that a lot are tippers and therefore not fitted with a permanent rigid roof

[dent]

Pickup truck magazine ran an article on this 2-3 months ago from memory from 2017 onwards the only new pickups that will be able to legally do car speeds are ssangyong greatwall l200 fiat and possibly isuzu