contaminated diesel

[aspenarb]

Bottom line here is no water means no freezing of diesel and no bugs. No water in diesel is virtually impossible so bung a bit of kerosene or petrol in the main holding tank and there will be no problems, keep the tank tipped back so the tank holds the water and drain this off periodically.If your squirt is in barrels lay them down to keep the water off the top or leave an old rag drapsed over the barrel and down the side, the water will find its way off the top of the barrel down the rag. Places like Canada that get minus plenty have a wintergrade diesel, its virtually kerosene bar about one point. There is always this if in doubt http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/maintenance-help/94633-nifty-fuel-water-test.html

 

Bob

[Craig.]

I read about the two grades of red diesel in classic tractor magazine, I think.

A quick search I found this http://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/Changes-Spec-NR-Gas-Oil-261110.pdf seems to say similar things to the magazine article about 2 types of red diesel.

[mendiplogs]

Bottom line here is no water means no freezing of diesel and no bugs. No water in diesel is virtually impossible so bung a bit of kerosene or petrol in the main holding tank and there will be no problems, keep the tank tipped back so the tank holds the water and drain this off periodically.If your squirt is in barrels lay them down to keep the water off the top or leave an old rag drapsed over the barrel and down the side, the water will find its way off the top of the barrel down the rag. Places like Canada that get minus plenty have a wintergrade diesel, its virtually kerosene bar about one point. There is always this if in doubt http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/maintenance-help/94633-nifty-fuel-water-test.html

 

Bob

 

Hi BOB THATS the way mate petrol in tank thanks Jon

[openspaceman]

I read about the two grades of red diesel in classic tractor magazine, I think.

A quick search I found this http://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/Changes-Spec-NR-Gas-Oil-261110.pdf seems to say similar things to the magazine article about 2 types of red diesel.

 

That's not how I read it: as I see it red diesel will since 2011 have to come in line with DERV, it will have to be low sulphur and contain biodiesel.

 

The article makes the point it will not store as well and be a source for microbes as well as affecting some components in classic or vintage engines. It doesn't mention that low sulphur diesel is a poorer lubricant than old fashioned full fat diesel, so old engine may suffer ( probably worth adding some lube additive for classics).

 

I cannot see it being worth a refinery having two diesel grades so just like any bonded supplier they will have a means of accounting to HMR for what diesel gets a shot of red dye as it is shipped.

[Craig.]

The original article I read said about local demand to the refinery's for red diesel dictated whether they made red or just added the dye to road fuel.

I read it as both types of red are low sulphur, but the dyed road fuel will have some bio fuel content, where as the other red has no legal requirement to include bio fuel content.

I must admit I`ve not asked my supplier what grade they supply, the article says dyed road fuel makes about 25% of total red fuel produced.

Agree with you about the lubrication of the low sulphur fuel, and I add a small amount of mineral 2 stroke oil, while refuelling, and had positive results of doing so.

Got a mf135 which did not tick over smoothly until I started adding lube, with the lobe tick over is smooth, if I have forgot to add some, the poor tick over will eventually reappear.

[aspenarb]

The original article I read said about local demand to the refinery's for red diesel dictated whether they made red or just added the dye to road fuel.

I read it as both types of red are low sulphur, but the dyed road fuel will have some bio fuel content, where as the other red has no legal requirement to include bio fuel content.

I must admit I`ve not asked my supplier what grade they supply, the article says dyed road fuel makes about 25% of total red fuel produced.

Agree with you about the lubrication of the low sulphur fuel, and I add a small amount of mineral 2 stroke oil, while refuelling, and had positive results of doing so.

Got a mf135 which did not tick over smoothly until I started adding lube, with the lobe tick over is smooth, if I have forgot to add some, the poor tick over will eventually reappear.

 

As far as I know things have moved on and all diesel is now low sulphur ,the only real difference is the dye.I know Shell and the like have fancy blends but the base fuel is the same. I too run some old clunkers that benefit from a drop of oil mixed in to keep the pumps lubricated but you have to be careful not to put this into modern machines with common rail injection.

 

Bob

[Craig.]

As far as I know things have moved on and all diesel is now low sulphur ,the only real difference is the dye.I know Shell and the like have fancy blends but the base fuel is the same. I too run some old clunkers that benefit from a drop of oil mixed in to keep the pumps lubricated but you have to be careful not to put this into modern machines with common rail injection.

 

Bob

 

Yes all low sulphur now, just some may contain bio fuel, as dyed road fuel, and some may not.

[twistedhicap]

As far as I know things have moved on and all diesel is now low sulphur ,the only real difference is the dye.I know Shell and the like have fancy blends but the base fuel is the same. I too run some old clunkers that benefit from a drop of oil mixed in to keep the pumps lubricated but you have to be careful not to put this into modern machines with common rail injection.

 

 

 

Bob

 

 

It's not the common rail that is the issue the emissions systems can't or won't like the increase in emissions from the addition of oil ! I use a shot of good old mineral two stroke in everything that doesn't have modern Dpf type emissions equipment be it Landrovers cars or off road and plant kit ! The result of the sulphur reduction process drugs the fuel out and removes some of the lubricity qualities of the fuel sulphur also itself used to help as a high pressure lube so the result is a less slippery fuel which can cause problems on any fuel system old or new, it's the more likely to show up in older engines that have lived on high sulphur fuels.

 

This is why named brand fuels can be better than supermarkets as its all down to the choice of additives that are in the fuel all fuel supplies at pumps has to meet Bs and En standards but the supplier chooses what they put in there additive package the higher the fuel cost better the brand hopefully the better additive pack that has been added e.g Shell regular and V power fuels will be the same base stock fuel but the V power will have a bigger and more comprehensive additive pack !

 

Also all fuels supplied now can carry upto 7% bio content and this also can cause issues with older seal components failing also the bio content is a very good solvent there for it cleans the fuel system and this causes filter plugging and issues due to the muck being shifted by the bio content !

 

Hope this helps !

[aspenarb]

It's not the common rail that is the issue the emissions systems can't or won't like the increase in emissions from the addition of oil ! I use a shot of good old mineral two stroke in everything that doesn't have modern Dpf type emissions equipment be it Landrovers cars or off road and plant kit ! The result of the sulphur reduction process drugs the fuel out and removes some of the lubricity qualities of the fuel sulphur also itself used to help as a high pressure lube so the result is a less slippery fuel which can cause problems on any fuel system old or new, it's the more likely to show up in older engines that have lived on high sulphur fuels.

 

This is why named brand fuels can be better than supermarkets as its all down to the choice of additives that are in the fuel all fuel supplies at pumps has to meet Bs and En standards but the supplier chooses what they put in there additive package the higher the fuel cost better the brand hopefully the better additive pack that has been added e.g Shell regular and V power fuels will be the same base stock fuel but the V power will have a bigger and more comprehensive additive pack !

 

Also all fuels supplied now can carry upto 7% bio content and this also can cause issues with older seal components failing also the bio content is a very good solvent there for it cleans the fuel system and this causes filter plugging and issues due to the muck being shifted by the bio content !

 

Hope this helps !

 

I just add ordinary engine oil in the diesel for the oldies. None of it is good for common rail though and its not just the DPF`s , there is nozzle clogging and a drop in power. Have a squint at this 2-Stroke Oil In Diesel ? A Technical Study

 

 

 

From the above.

 

The practice of adding 2-stroke oil to diesel is a topic that is enthusiastically discussed and debated by diesel vehicle owners around the world. The consensus of opinion on the ideal blending ratio as per some internet forums is reported to be a 200:1 volume mixture of JASO-FC grade 2-stroke oil in low sulphur diesel. The benefits of this are claimed to be better lubrication of injectors and fuel pumps, improved cetane number resulting in better combustion, and no detrimental effects. As these claims are based on anecdotal evidence, this study aimed to quantify any such effects under scientific laboratory conditions.

 

The motorist’s motivation for following this self-medication advice stems from a perception that low sulphur diesel has inadequate lubrication capabilities in the high-tech fuel pump and fuel injection hardware found in modern diesel engines. The basis for this is not that sulphur itself acts as a lubricant, but rather that trace amounts of polar molecules present in crude-oil give diesel good lubricity properties. It is true that the refinery process used to remove sulphur from diesel also tends to remove these polar molecules. However, it is quite simple to replace the lost polar molecules by adding a lubricity improver additive which is the universal norm for low sulphur diesel practiced by the oil industry throughout the world.

 

This study reviews the industry standard test method for diesel lubricity which is part of SANS 342:2014, the standard governing the sale of diesel in South Africa. A diesel fuel passing this test demonstrates a high level of lubricity and adequate protection of modern diesel injection equipment. A number of test fuels were blended with and without 2-stroke oil and tested according to this method. An additional diesel lubricity test method known to be representative of diesel fuel pump wear was also used to confirm the results. The study also tested the cetane number of the same fuels to quantify any cetane benefit derived from 2-stroke oil in diesel. The 2-stroke oils used in the study were also analysed for metal content and high levels of zinc and other metals were found in the oils tested.

 

The study also included engine dynamometer testing using a modern common rail passenger car diesel engine. Engine performance and emissions were compared under laboratory conditions. Common rail injector fouling tests were also run to compare low sulphur diesel to the same fuel dosed with 2-stroke oil.

 

The results of the study support a view that the practice of dosing diesel with 2-stroke oil is surprisingly ineffective in terms of lubricity and cetane improvements. Engine performance, fuel consumption and emissions were also unchanged; however the use of 2-stroke oil in diesel is potentially harmful to modern diesel injection equipment. Trace amounts of zinc, an element which is found in most 2-stroke oils, are well known to cause injector nozzle fouling and the study measured high levels of injector fouling when the test engine was running on diesel dosed with 2-stroke oil. While the oil industry may not mind the additional revenue from the sale of 2-stroke oil with each tank of diesel, this study demonstrated that it is not in the best interest of the user to do so.

 

2-stroke oil, 2SO, lubricity, diesel, injector fouling

[twistedhicap]

Oh now that makes interesting reading ! Thanks for that always nice to see scientific evidence least you cannot argue with it !

 

Cheers bob