New venture help, wood prices etc

[fmeforestry]

Good afternoon,

 

Ok so here's the story and how the idea has come about. We are farmers mainly, I run a agricultural contracting company alongside my farmers farm. Along with our farm we own around 500 acres of woodland, from mixed hardwoods, some mixed softwoods and some chestnut coppice. On 3 of the farms I manage there is a further 200-300 acres of woodland. Again mixed hard and softwoods. I have long been interested in the potential of doing something with woodlands, father is a big shooting man and deems this to be the sole activity for all the woodland he can own! Unfortunately this isn't paying the bills and since his health has caught up with him he has decided to retire.

 

So providing I can still provide the shooting he wants I have been allowed to investigate woodland management, coppicing, clear fell, thinning etc. My main aim is to provide a 'winter' job for my staff and hopefully some profit!

 

The big idea is to have a contractor come in to handle all the felling and my team provide the management services. I have the prices for the contractors, they seem pretty steep but then harvesters etc are £350,000 machines so maybe they aren't all that bad!

 

What I needs is an idea of prices per ton, yield per acre, how it all needs organising, i.e different stacks of different species or does it need stacking by size? How do I get it graded? Do I have someone in to say 'that's firewood, that's woodchip wood etc' or do I just get it all organised back in my yard and let the buyer decide if he wants it or not? Where's the best place to sell? I'm worried about putting a lot of time and effort into this enterprise and getting messed around.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[luftwaffe]

You must market and sell the timber first, the buyer will tell you what sizes they require, then you give the sizes to the harvesting contractor for him to cut, tell the buyer that you will pay the haulage sothat you are in charge of what loads go where and when,

or you can go down the standing sales route and sell the timber standing to harvesting company', IE £10 per tonne or so, they arange everthing themselves, all you do is show them the areas in question and keep an eye on whats happening, hope this brief outline helps,

[slack ma girdle]

I would in your situation probably sell the wood standing, but you will need to know what assessets you have and how much you can fell per year

Making money from timber is not straight forward.

[the village idiot]

Have you considered employing the services of a forestry agent. They can take all the headaches out of it for you, dealing with all the permissions, planning, grants and timber sales. With the amount of woodland you have available their costs would easily be covered by the profits and the grants you would potentially be eligible for.

You would still be able to choose your own contractor if you wanted and utilise your staff.

 

Where abouts in the country are you?

[BARNSLEY BOB]

SHOCKED.

 

sensible opinions on arbtalk

[fmeforestry]

I'm down in Kent.

 

I have considered just leaving it all to a contractor but my issue is that all the grants etc are linked in with our single farm payment grants and I'm concerned that I'll end up jeopardising all of that. I understand a lot of the grant process and the woodland management side of it. I've been a few years looking into it. We've just got to the crunch point now where it's time to put the plans into action! Like I said I'm looking for something to put my team doing in the winter anyway and we can easily do the woodland management side of it, I've also got the job of organising the sales side of it! Where do I contact the buyers? I see that there are some online auction website but obviously I need the wood cut before I can sell it and well if I get it all cut wrong then it's worthless. Seems most timbers in 3 metre (10 ft) lengths, is this the industry standard? Then let the buyer process it from there?

 

I'm not trying to pretend it's easy but well seems there is a job in it, I don't mind the work organising it all, and my team are capable of doing the on the ground work gapping up and weed management. I'm hoping it could be a useful diversification for me in the winter if I'm honest.

 

Thanks for your help so far.

[devon TWiG]

There is a great deal to learn and things to know about this industry to answer on a forum , it would be a bit like one of us asking you how to get in to farming !!! ( I mean that politely ) but you have the resource and I suppose some gear , tractors trailers etc and if you also have buildings then the current firewood market could be a good place to start , it is relatively unskilled ( no offence intended ) and labour intensive to suit spare staff etc and selling the better quality timber for milling .... good luck anyway !

[TheHungrySquirrel]

I'm down in Kent.

 

I have considered just leaving it all to a contractor but my issue is that all the grants etc are linked in with our single farm payment grants and I'm concerned that I'll end up jeopardising all of that. I understand a lot of the grant process and the woodland management side of it. I've been a few years looking into it. We've just got to the crunch point now where it's time to put the plans into action! Like I said I'm looking for something to put my team doing in the winter anyway and we can easily do the woodland management side of it, I've also got the job of organising the sales side of it! Where do I contact the buyers? I see that there are some online auction website but obviously I need the wood cut before I can sell it and well if I get it all cut wrong then it's worthless. Seems most timbers in 3 metre (10 ft) lengths, is this the industry standard? Then let the buyer process it from there?

 

I'm not trying to pretend it's easy but well seems there is a job in it, I don't mind the work organising it all, and my team are capable of doing the on the ground work gapping up and weed management. I'm hoping it could be a useful diversification for me in the winter if I'm honest.

 

Thanks for your help so far.

 

 

Where abouts in Kent are you based? I would definitely be interested in buying standing timber and may be able to offer a little advice on some other uses for the timber.

[woodworm]

DONT cut it all to 3m lengths.

 

I would personally go down the route of getting a reputable harvesting contractor in and selling on out-turn. That way, the contractor cuts what is needed by himself or the mills who he will have a good relationship with, and pays you a rate for each product as it goes over the weighbridge.

For example, they would pay you (these are not real prices!)

£20/t for logs

£15/t for bars

£10/t for chip

£25/t for hardwood

 

They harvest it, they extract it, they arrange the haulage (put a camera up if you are not sure you want to trust them) and when all the wood has gone you get a nice big cheque.

No hassle forestry. Your guys can then go in and underplant with young stock to create a continuous cover forestry system and prune the remaining trees to create high quality hardwoods for future harvesting and felling.

 

You could keep any harvested hardwood with the contractor charging you a harvesting and extraction price (£15-20/t depending on the hardwood) and create a nice local firewood business to keep your guys busy during winter processing and delivering the wood.

[fmeforestry]

There is a great deal to learn and things to know about this industry to answer on a forum , it would be a bit like one of us asking you how to get in to farming !!! ( I mean that politely ) but you have the resource and I suppose some gear , tractors trailers etc and if you also have buildings then the current firewood market could be a good place to start , it is relatively unskilled ( no offence intended ) and labour intensive to suit spare staff etc and selling the better quality timber for milling .... good luck anyway !

 

I can teach you how to farm no worries at all, its all about soil structure and management, plant in the dry, spray in the dry, combine in the dry, its all quite simple! Plant before winter, spray it all 5-6 times a year, 3 rounds of fertiliser, combine as soon as it's under 15% in July. Bang it in a shed, call frontier grain or grain harvesters, job done, home for tea.