Trading Standards

[Mark Bolam]

It's all BS.

Every load is £50, and it's a ton.

Always has been, always will be.

Double can pickups were invented by Al Gore so log sellers didn't lose out to inflation.

[County 764]

I changed my descriptions from cubic meters to bag dimensions but I think tomorrow I'll change it again to both.

 

Ye that's what I've done. The council have no idea about this type of fuel and how it should be marketed. I cant see a fairer system than stating the loose size of the load and the average moisture content.

 

I'm not changing the way I currently sell logs

[BARNSLEY BOB]

oh dear, oh dear,

 

come on chaps.

 

as per HETAS WOODSURE handbook. and BSL. same regulators/administrators

 

cut top off a plastic graduated ibc.

tip your bag of logs in, level , and read off volume from scale imprinted in the plastic.

take dated photo as evidence.

repeat at reasonable times throughout the season.

 

you will be astounded at how much timber you are giving away free.

 

bags stretch

bags and boxes get shaken.

we are selling 1.2 /1.3 m3 as a 1 m3

0.8/0.9 m3 as 0.65m3

Edited October 30, 2015 by BARNSLEY BOB
syntax error

[Justme]

is this your interpretation or have they actually told you this?

 

when they changed the name guess they changed the rules too.

 

when they were vosa I and others were told if the goods are ready for sale then you need to have a tachograph even if you are carrying them back to your yard. unsplit rings are not a finished product so no tachograph required.

I would suggest you fire off an email and ask them for some clarification as you have posted on several threads and your opinion is contrary to what others have experienced from these inspectors and it could end up costing some people in fines if you are incorrect. I'll just continue to use the tacho to be safe. plenty posts 12 18 months ago on people being pulled by VOSA you can look up.

 

Its in their publicly available documentation.

 

Actually from a VOSA branded document.

 

Its re O licences but is about the same definition of what "Hire or Reward" is.

 

They cant use different definitions of what "Hire or Reward" is for different regulations.

 

 

This is what it says.

 

You will be exempt from operator licensing unless you are operating for hire or reward (see description below).

 

This is referred to as operating on your own account.

 

You will require a Standard Goods Vehicle Operators Licence where you are carrying other people’s goods for hire or reward (e.g. working as a courier, removal firm or other freight transport business)

 

Couriers, freight & removals do not carry goods they own.

 

It then says

 

What is not Hire or Reward

 

You are NOT usually operating for Hire or Reward when you carry goods you own or goods you have used or will use in the course of your business.

 

It then goes on to give examples, in these examples it talks of a digger but goods would be treated the same:-

 

Examples

 

In each of the following examples a Van below 3,500 kgs (3.5t) and a small trailer is used to transport a mini-digger from a depot to a work site. The gross plated weights of vehicle and trailer when combined exceed 3.5t. These examples cover most circumstances, however there are more than these simple examples so if you are in any doubt please contact VOSA enquiries.

 

Example 1 - The digger is owned by you, the user of the vehicle. You use the digger on the site. This transport is done on your own account and you do not need an operator’s licence.

 

Example 2 - The digger is rented by you, the user of the vehicle. You use the digger on the site. This transport is done on your own account and you do not need an operator’s licence.

 

Example 3 - The digger is rented by you, the owner of the digger is the user of the vehicle (they deliver to site for you to use). You use the digger on the site. This transport is done on the "own account" of the digger renting company and they do not need an operator’s licence.

 

Example 4 - The digger is owned by the building company, you collect it from building company’s depot and bring to site. You use the digger on the site. This transport is done on your own account and you do not need an operator’s licence.

 

Example 5 - The digger is owned by the building company, having used the digger you take it from one site to another site (where the digger is stored). This transport is done on your own account and you do not need an operator’s licence.

 

Example 6 - The digger is not owned by you, you collect it from a depot and deposit it at a site where another company uses it. If you are rewarded for this work in any way (payment or in kind) this is hire or reward, you have not undertaken this work on your own account, you have made a pure freight journey – and you will therefore need an operator’s licence.

 

 

As I always say, in the end its up to you to choose what you will do. Its better to keep this sort of stuff out of court if you can as there is only ever one winner in court & thats the legal teams.

 

However with the right documentation in the cab (inc a pre filled in exemption form that VOSA / DVSA supply) & a good knowledge of the regulations it should not get further than a short road side stop.

 

This is one area that has been very misunderstood in the past just like when the 97 licence changes came in & mostly farmers were getting stopped with a 3500kg trailer behind a pick up with a 2800kg (number out of the air) tow limit got done when in actual fact they are legal as long as the real weight was withing the 2800kg limit. Plated weights were only applicable for non +E licence holders.

 

Its also like the current misunderstanding that a Cat B licence holder can only tow 750kg.

Or

that they can only drive a combination of up to 3500kg GTW even if the trailer is 750kg only & the trailer cant weigh more than the unladen car weight.

 

When the truth is that a 3500kg car can still tow 750kg in addition to that making a 4250kg GTW or they can drive a combination of up to 3500kg GTW with a trailer that weighs more than 750kg & weighs more than the car as long as its withing the makers GTW limits.

[Justme]

cut top off a plastic graduated ibc.

 

 

Thats not a certified volume measurement device with a paper trail of evidence re is suitability for the job its doing.

 

They want scales or other devices that have a certification re there accuracy.

[County 764]

Thats not a certified volume measurement device with a paper trail of evidence re is suitability for the job its doing.

 

They want scales or other devices that have a certification re there accuracy.

 

Hi

 

Thanks for the info regarding regulations some useful stuff. how do you go about getting a pre filled in exemption form that VOSA / DVSA supply? if you know of any website links that would be appreciated.

 

Trading Standards are giving the impression that they want scales. My bags are produced to a given size this doesn't sound acceptable to them but awaiting feedback I think they'll say the same about IBC containers

[Logsnstuff]

Like I said had it from the guys mouth if I get caught with split logs in a trailer and no tacho I would be charged, unless they send me an email response contrary I'll continue to use my tacho.

[County 764]

Like I said had it from the guys mouth if I get caught with split logs in a trailer and no tacho I would be charged, unless they send me an email response contrary I'll continue to use my tacho.

 

I take it you need to have a CPC to as you have the tacho?

 

A lot of rules and regulations before a single log gets delivered

[Logsnstuff]

I take it you need to have a CPC to as you have the tacho?

 

A lot of rules and regulations before a single log gets delivered

 

dont need cpc for your own goods on 3.5t

[briquette_seller]

You only need a cpc if your a professional driver, e.g. your a full time lorry driver.

If your a firewood merchant, delivering logs, you don't need a cpc, as driving isn't your "profession".

 

That's what I was advised, by VOSA

Edited October 31, 2015 by briquette_seller