Drowned refugee children

[Loler UK]

Having been privileged enough to have sat and broke bread with some of these migrants at various points in their journey including their earlier stages in the Balkans I've read this thread with some interest. Some, and i mean SOME people have made some interesting points.

 

Sadly this situation is not a simple one, far from it. One of you was quite correct in saying that many making the long journey are rather well off and travel with considerable means, whilst many in the region's camps do not.

 

I've only shared this experience with a couple of friends, it's not a privilege/ experience i feel the need/ desire to retell but perhaps it might help some people to understand these peoples varied situations and circumstances.

 

I've wrote it so as not to offend but if you are off a particularly fragile disposition then perhaps you shouldn't read on, my story is not graphic but it does refer to the reality of what many of these people are fleeing; moderators i hope that you feel my account and its language is well within arbtalk's policies. If not please edit lightly and notify me as opposed to deleting the whole post.

 

When i arrived at Belgrade's central train & coach station station at about 00:30 a couple of weeks ago i saw for the first time in my life 1000's of people sleeping on the floor like sardines but then with others sleeping stacked on top of them at 90 degrees like jenga blocks. Tip toeing over the sleeping bodies to buy my ticket with young kids darting around playing my seasoned traveller instincts had me highly vigilant shall we say, but strangely, the atmosphere was very calm, safe & relaxed even the station staff were in high spirits and at that time in the morning!

 

I seldom travel with a camera as i'm not big on 'recording' my exploits other than in my own mind/ memory but on this occasion i had to do some promotional film work so had my 5d3 and lenses with me; even I had the urge to record these incredible scenes not shown by the Media, this part of their journey earns just fractions of a second of speech in the odd news report; this was balanced by my distaste for our voyeuristic tenancies and respect for these peoples plight & privacy so my camera stayed firmly within its bag.

 

I was not surprised to find that the white orthodox Christian Serbian population rich and poor alike held no animosity towards these migrants of alternative skin colour and beliefs; so many of them know better than any of us what it's like to be caught up in a war zone, they held grater empathy for these migrants than anyone i've met in the UK.

 

On my return to belgrade during daylight hours the extent of the numbers became evident, the green adjacent to the station looked akin to Glastonbury! Calais is nothing, NOTHNIG! With most of my fellow bus travellers avoiding them like the plague and walking the much longer way round to get to the city centre i walked through and was politely greeted with smiles and pleasantries by many as i passed through, many with impeccable English and some exceptionally well dressed. I chatted to a Syrian woman who really did look divine in her beautiful dress, headscarf and with such jewellery! S

 

he told me that the Hotels refused to let them stay despite them having ample money to stay in the finest of hotels in all belgrade as the management are afraid of getting into trouble with the authorities, as a result she bought a small tent and sleeps on the green; she'd even spent her new former accommodation budget in Belgrade's finest boutiques, hence the dress! I met Eritreans, Sudanese, Egyptians, Iranians, Iraqis Syrians, Somalians the ethnic mix was diverse to say the least and some certainly far poorer/ wealthier than others to say the least. I had some tea with my new host and she showed me around a little, and i asked how difficult they were finding it to eat halal in serbia, she laughed, now was not the time for her to be concerned about eating halal she said but said for other 'refuges' they would go without meat if no halal is available.

 

You can be sure that their are terrified refugees both rich and poor fleeing for their lives from a horrific warzone, there were stories shared with me that morning that i will not be posting or even retelling in most circumstances but let me put it this way:

 

When the tanks are rolling down the road on their way to your village, to rape your wife and your children, to brutalise you, your friends and family to destroy all you have strived for and built over many generations you will feel differently. You wont care about who Sanctions the bommers, helicopters, misiles or ground troops, in that moment you will not care. If you have the option and means to flee or to get your loved ones out before they arrive you most likely will. We on our small rich island can have almost no understanding of their situation.

 

Undoubtedly many are taking this opportunity to jump on the band wagon as it steams across borders, some may not even be fleeing conflict and even those that are taking advantage of the situation to not merely escape the carnage but to regain the status they lost or, of course, enhance it. I've not been privileged enough to visit the camps in Jordan but i'm sure that many of the people there did not have the means or time enough to make it to Europe and i think it quite right that these people should have an equal or greater right to be settled in one of the more affluent nations as those that have chosen to traipse across Europe without registering for asylum at the first safe port of call, but who can blame them? how should we measure their 'deserving'?

 

Let us feel nothing but empathy for these people, but let that empathy include striving to find sustainable solutions for this crisis which, without a crystal ball, will be quite something.

[matelot]

When the tanks are rolling down the road on their way to your village, to rape your wife and your children, to brutalise you, your friends and family to destroy all you have strived for and built over many generations you will feel differently.

 

So in the second world war we should have just ran away from the Nazis? Sorry, but if all those young men don't want to fight for their country they don't deserve to live in Europe. Anyway, I wasn't aware there was a war in all the countries they've passed through? I was going to go to Turkey next year, is that really a war zone? They are just economic migrants...

 

If we let too many of those migrants in we will turn Europe into the same sh1tholes that they have come from. We'll see the Kurds and Turks fighting each other, we'll see the Sunni and Shia Muslims fighting each other and we'll have everyone fighting the ethnic whites.

[scotspine1]

I was not surprised to find that the white orthodox Christian Serbian population rich and poor alike held no animosity towards these migrants of alternative skin colour and beliefs; so many of them know better than any of us what it's like to be caught up in a war zone, they held grater empathy for these migrants than anyone i've met in the UK.

 

 

[ame=

]

[/ame]

[matelot]

 

That part of the world is a tinderbox. 20 years ago the muslims/ Christians etc were slaughtering each other. Then the EU has the bright idea of forcing Muslim refugees into Christian countries?

 

The Liberals like to say how nasty the likes of UKIP is, however i can see the rise of the extreme right wing...

 

Let's face it, European culture will not exist in 100 years time with the present migration levels....

[scotspine1]

we'll see the Sunni and Shia Muslims fighting each other

 

it's already happening, this report outlines attacks on British mosques by muslims. This is what happens when an immigrant population refuses to integrate. Multiculturalism is a failed experiment. Multi-ethnicity is fine, but when people import their culture and religion wholesale it can only ever lead to problems.

 

Sectarian hatred at the heart of British Muslim community | The Times

 

 

.

Edited September 24, 2015 by scotspine1

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Having been privileged enough to have sat and broke bread with some of these migrants at various points in their journey including their earlier stages in the Balkans I've read this thread with some interest. Some, and i mean SOME people have made some interesting points.

 

Sadly this situation is not a simple one, far from it. One of you was quite correct in saying that many making the long journey are rather well off and travel with considerable means, whilst many in the region's camps do not.

 

I've only shared this experience with a couple of friends, it's not a privilege/ experience i feel the need/ desire to retell but perhaps it might help some people to understand these peoples varied situations and circumstances.

 

I've wrote it so as not to offend but if you are off a particularly fragile disposition then perhaps you shouldn't read on, my story is not graphic but it does refer to the reality of what many of these people are fleeing; moderators i hope that you feel my account and its language is well within arbtalk's policies. If not please edit lightly and notify me as opposed to deleting the whole post.

 

When i arrived at Belgrade's central train & coach station station at about 00:30 a couple of weeks ago i saw for the first time in my life 1000's of people sleeping on the floor like sardines but then with others sleeping stacked on top of them at 90 degrees like jenga blocks. Tip toeing over the sleeping bodies to buy my ticket with young kids darting around playing my seasoned traveller instincts had me highly vigilant shall we say, but strangely, the atmosphere was very calm, safe & relaxed even the station staff were in high spirits and at that time in the morning!

 

I seldom travel with a camera as i'm not big on 'recording' my exploits other than in my own mind/ memory but on this occasion i had to do some promotional film work so had my 5d3 and lenses with me; even I had the urge to record these incredible scenes not shown by the Media, this part of their journey earns just fractions of a second of speech in the odd news report; this was balanced by my distaste for our voyeuristic tenancies and respect for these peoples plight & privacy so my camera stayed firmly within its bag.

 

I was not surprised to find that the white orthodox Christian Serbian population rich and poor alike held no animosity towards these migrants of alternative skin colour and beliefs; so many of them know better than any of us what it's like to be caught up in a war zone, they held grater empathy for these migrants than anyone i've met in the UK.

 

On my return to belgrade during daylight hours the extent of the numbers became evident, the green adjacent to the station looked akin to Glastonbury! Calais is nothing, NOTHNIG! With most of my fellow bus travellers avoiding them like the plague and walking the much longer way round to get to the city centre i walked through and was politely greeted with smiles and pleasantries by many as i passed through, many with impeccable English and some exceptionally well dressed. I chatted to a Syrian woman who really did look divine in her beautiful dress, headscarf and with such jewellery! S

 

he told me that the Hotels refused to let them stay despite them having ample money to stay in the finest of hotels in all belgrade as the management are afraid of getting into trouble with the authorities, as a result she bought a small tent and sleeps on the green; she'd even spent her new former accommodation budget in Belgrade's finest boutiques, hence the dress! I met Eritreans, Sudanese, Egyptians, Iranians, Iraqis Syrians, Somalians the ethnic mix was diverse to say the least and some certainly far poorer/ wealthier than others to say the least. I had some tea with my new host and she showed me around a little, and i asked how difficult they were finding it to eat halal in serbia, she laughed, now was not the time for her to be concerned about eating halal she said but said for other 'refuges' they would go without meat if no halal is available.

 

You can be sure that their are terrified refugees both rich and poor fleeing for their lives from a horrific warzone, there were stories shared with me that morning that i will not be posting or even retelling in most circumstances but let me put it this way:

 

When the tanks are rolling down the road on their way to your village, to rape your wife and your children, to brutalise you, your friends and family to destroy all you have strived for and built over many generations you will feel differently. You wont care about who Sanctions the bommers, helicopters, misiles or ground troops, in that moment you will not care. If you have the option and means to flee or to get your loved ones out before they arrive you most likely will. We on our small rich island can have almost no understanding of their situation.

 

Undoubtedly many are taking this opportunity to jump on the band wagon as it steams across borders, some may not even be fleeing conflict and even those that are taking advantage of the situation to not merely escape the carnage but to regain the status they lost or, of course, enhance it. I've not been privileged enough to visit the camps in Jordan but i'm sure that many of the people there did not have the means or time enough to make it to Europe and i think it quite right that these people should have an equal or greater right to be settled in one of the more affluent nations as those that have chosen to traipse across Europe without registering for asylum at the first safe port of call, but who can blame them? how should we measure their 'deserving'?

 

Let us feel nothing but empathy for these people, but let that empathy include striving to find sustainable solutions for this crisis which, without a crystal ball, will be quite something.

 

 

Touching sentimentality, worrying naivety!

 

The contradictions within your apparent justification for sympathy are an insight to the problems of the future. (Possibly, one could say inevitably, including the potential for tanks to be rolling down a street near you sooner than you might imagine!)

 

Importing 1000's / 10s of thousands of religiously, culturally, ethnically diverse, emotionally traumatised, physically injured people into areas that are physically, socially, ethnically, culturally alien to them is hardly a recipe for civil harmony.

 

That you specifically highlighted the wealth and beauty of 1 particular individual is probably indicative of the haemorrhaging of the the middle classes (economic migrants) that will further delay and hinder the return of stability and prosperity to which ever region they have deserted.

 

A desperate situation? Undoubtably. Aid necessary & justified? Undoubtedly, BUT, injected into the region or the immediately adjacent areas of relative safety, not in the form of mass relocation across many countries until the 'country of choice' is reached.

 

You rightly highlight the 'tip of the iceberg' nature of what we are currently experiencing, and that alone should be enough to indicate the ludicrously naive and inadequate propositions of opening the borders.

[matelot]

Before anyone starts the "we need them to pay tax" argument:

 

"Unemployment among ethnic minorities costs the economy almost £8.6 billion a year in benefits and lost revenue from taxes. Half of Muslim men and three quarters of Muslim women are unemployed."

 

Britain's coping classes at breaking point - Telegraph

 

My entire life the media have told me that migration is good for me and Britain... tbh, I'm getting fed up being lied to.

[GreenGui]

Before anyone starts the "we need them to pay tax" argument:

 

"Unemployment among ethnic minorities costs the economy almost £8.6 billion a year in benefits and lost revenue from taxes. Half of Muslim men and three quarters of Muslim women are unemployed."

 

Britain's coping classes at breaking point - Telegraph

 

My entire life the media have told me that migration is good for me and Britain... tbh, I'm getting fed up being lied to.

 

Takes your mind off

 

Tax avoidance costs UK economy £69.9 billion a year

 

:lol::lol:

[matelot]

Takes your mind off

 

Tax avoidance costs UK economy £69.9 billion a year

 

:lol::lol:

 

So it's OK that ethnic minorities cost Britain £8.6billion because tax avoidance costs Britain more?

 

That's like saying assaulting someone is OK because it's not as bad as murder......

 

Thanks for the "smilies", it really backed your argument up.

[Commando]

Touching sentimentality, worrying naivety!

 

The contradictions within your apparent justification for sympathy are an insight to the problems of the future. (Possibly, one could say inevitably, including the potential for tanks to be rolling down a street near you sooner than you might imagine!)

 

Importing 1000's / 10s of thousands of religiously, culturally, ethnically diverse, emotionally traumatised, physically injured people into areas that are physically, socially, ethnically, culturally alien to them is hardly a recipe for civil harmony.

 

That you specifically highlighted the wealth and beauty of 1 particular individual is probably indicative of the haemorrhaging of the the middle classes (economic migrants) that will further delay and hinder the return of stability and prosperity to which ever region they have deserted.

 

A desperate situation? Undoubtably. Aid necessary & justified? Undoubtedly, BUT, injected into the region or the immediately adjacent areas of relative safety, not in the form of mass relocation across many countries until the 'country of choice' is reached.

 

You rightly highlight the 'tip of the iceberg' nature of what we are currently experiencing, and that alone should be enough to indicate the ludicrously naive and inadequate propositions of opening the borders.

 

 

Well said Kev.....👍