Follow up on ETCC snap ban

[Mark B.]

Rob,

 

have a look under the following link:

 

http://eurotcc.org/rules-scoring/resources/Changesfor2009.pdf

[Andy Collins]

Tbh mate if i was as good a climber as these goats id be very happy indeed!

 

 

 

It was nice to attend the Goat rec climb event, unfortunately they left very little to eat for the other attendees:lol:

[Rob D]

Ok I've looked at the link...

 

So the ETCC (European Tree Climbing Championship - I didn't have a clue what that stood for) have banned them...

 

In a competition climbing is totally different to working as in you're looking at speed as being the priority...

 

They've only been banned for competitions not for general use.

 

Irrespective I would carry on using mine - just bought another ISC one the other day because I think they're so good. There's lots of things that could be a hazard in this job if used incorrectly or simply you could just be plain unlucky - but that doesn't mean to say the equipment is not up to the job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark B.]

The underlying issue of risk of roll out of the karabiner isn't specific to competitions, it can and has happened in production work.

 

What you choose to do is up to you, obviously. I just try to base my decisions on facts.

[Rob D]

I think that's fair enough really - a lot of stuff has to do with our own personal outlook.

 

But IMO there are probably some snaps out there more likely to 'roll out' as others. I've used the ISC double snap for 2 years and never found I have had a problem or have got nervous about it opening by accident.

 

Unless there was a wave of opinion and outright condemnation of this particular snap then I would continue using it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

R

[Mark B.]

I would agree to that, it really depends on the combination of d-rings and snap shape.

 

But there is also a more profound question in my mind which is that as an industry we have defined a level of safety for our connectors, i.e. they shall be auto locking with a double safety mechanism. Why do we make an exception to this rule on the lanyard. It's one of the points where we use connectors that is least easy to visually inspect and also one of the areas where roll-out is most likely to occur, for instance when rubbing up against a stem or pushing through branches.

[combined tree services]

my strop is purly for work position and not used as a life line so i feel my snap hook is perfectly fine . surely if there is such a problem with the snap hook why are they still bein fited to flip lines ?? i really can see how you can open your snap hook and your attachment point role out of it if your weight is on the strop ?? if your weight is in the strop then your attachment point should be firmly sat in the jaw of the snap hook . i was looking in one one of my staff last year when he was on his basic climbing course , when i git there the instror was demonstrating how to preform a pole rescue . the instructor was using the barrel 3way gate carabiners and explainin how they are much better than the origional 3 way gates as they cant come open accidently !!!! i looked up to see he had used one on his anchor point and the gate was wide open !!!!

 

this is a high risk industry and i personally feel that the more that is done to try and stop accidents occouring the more kit get introduced and the risk therefor increases . what was wrong with screw gates and actually taking some responsibiliy for your own actions !!! i was doind sone industrial rope access and screw gates are all that we used . has anyone done a screw gate up when it has been under load and then tried to undo it while its no longer under load ?? for those of you tht have you will see that it is incredibly hard to undo it .

[Mark B.]

Different industry different best practice guide lines.

 

Your lanyard can become your primary tie in, for instance when accessing a tree using it alternating with your climbing line.

 

Times and technical possibilities change. Fifty years ago there were no seat belts in cars. Now we have them though, it's a good idea to use them.

[combined tree services]

i see your point mark but if your climbing with a strop and your main line then a snap hook may not be a good idea . i tend to either get a high anchor point with my throw line or use my main line and a 10 meter line to get up into the ascend up into the tree as i find it faster than thrutch up a bit , put you strop round then throw your main line further up then thrutch up and start the proces all over again . i guess the use of a snap really does depend on your stile of climbing .

 

as for the different industry and different practices i would have thought that being up to 400 foot up working on a cliff with drilling macinery would have far more stringent rules .

 

another thought is why does cant someone come up with a 3 way snap hook ?

[Ian F]

So would a 3 way snap hook be allowed?