Do students learn any thing?

[Andy Clark]

didnt pay any attention after he put the spikes on the wrong legs tbh mate. he came to me looking for a climbing position, he was a labourer for 3 years. he had a bad habit of never taking a tool strop with him, and liked using prussik loops instead of a flip line. he liked to choker them onto the tree. i would catch him at it when i wasnt there. he got stuck up a pollarded lime one day aswell with a extendable hedge cutter the prussik didnt come in very handy at all.. he would also stand ontop of the last rung on the steps when hedge cutting, used to give me nightmares. he could balance there all day, a painters trick i reckon.

 

Should have subbed him out as a circus acrobat!!

 

You'd have coined it in.

[Stephen Blair]

i gave him a chance and he realised very quickly after watching me he was never going to be a climber. he didnt even like heights. that should be on the first page of the college application form lol

[Andy Clark]

i gave him a chance and he realised very quickly after watching me he was never going to be a climber. he didnt even like heights. that should be on the first page of the college application form lol

 

You'd think so, wouldn't ya.

 

Told ya (and as has been covered on that Sparsholt thread)... Bums on seats.

[Highland Forestry]

LEGALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????

 

Please tell me the LAW to which you are referring!!!

 

 

As I see it, and I may be wrong.... but.... It is illegal to work without adequate insurance, be it public liability or employers? correct?

If you employ someone, even if they are self employed you legally have to have employers liability and when purchasing employers you must also have public so the two are hand in hand...

 

Righto, so to be insured, you have to be qualified for what you are doing or the insurance company will void your policy...

 

E.G.. somebody climbing a tree and cutting without CS 38, 39 etc, has an accident and a claim ensues...... insurance company say ''we're very sorry but we can not honour your policy as your employee was not qualified for the task he was performing''

 

So, in a round about way, having the necessary qualifications is the law..

If you dont have them then you dont have insurance and that is illegal.

 

 

There are many cans of worms here, another example would be LOLER... if I have a guy in climbing and his rope snaps the insurance company would want to see the last LOLER inspection and the record of usage... if you dont have it then they will duck out of the claim and leave you shafted

 

 

Felled a tree through a powerline? ... Where was his UA.1/UA.2??

 

Contaminated a river with propyzamide? ... Where was his PA1/PA6??

 

Had a nasty accident with a chipper? ... Where was his brushwood chipper ticket?

 

 

The scenarios are endless but getting back to the point, if you havent got the relevent competency, be it NPTC or LANTRA etc then you're not really insured and that is against the law.

[skyhuck]

 

 

I never mentioned anything about NPTCs....

 

 

 

You were rebuffing my comment about LAW, which referred directly to a quote that said ALL the NPTC units were a LEGAL requirement for the tasks they cover!!

[skyhuck]

As I see it, and I may be wrong.... but.... It is illegal to work without adequate insurance, be it public liability or employers? correct?

.

 

No!!

 

EL is required NOT PL

[skyhuck]

Righto, so to be insured, you have to be qualified for what you are doing or the insurance company will void your policy...

 

.

 

NOT true.

[Highland Forestry]

No!!

 

EL is required NOT PL

 

 

You can't buy EL without buying PL

[combined tree services]

I don't know when you did your course but I have now been through three blokes out of merrist wood and as far as I am concerned all the course did was fill their heads full of ****!

The boys I had came straight out of merrist wood after the 10wk course and thought they were 'arborists' ..... and they simply werent.

They had good knowledge of id, and some fungi etc but couldnt use a chainsaw to save thier life.

Aside from all of that, everyone...including the merrist wood graduates seem only to get CS30, 31, 38, 39 - in industry this is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard!

Ok, so you have your 30, 31, 38 and 39...... what can you legally do??

Cut trees/crosscut and fell anything less than 15' and do an aerial rescue and use a chainsaw from a rope and harness..... big deal...Where's the 32,33, 34, 35, 40, 41, chipper, mewp, PA1, PA6, FA etc?

 

None of us like all this health and safety/qualification world we live in, but it's the hoops we have to jump though in order to get on with it..

 

IMHO if you go onto these college courses and pay good money for them you should come out of it with ALL the tickets you need to work legally and professionaly in the industry. Instead what we have coming out is a bunch of half-qualified guys thinking thier the bollox.

The colleges give the guys the impression that it dosent matter how long it takes them to do a job as long as they do it safe, which is also a load of crap.. safety and efficiency go hand in hand.

 

 

rant over....

 

im sorry but i have been reading many of these posts and asking my self how in touch some people are !!! i went to merrist wood after 3 years in the industry getting the experiance to make the most out of going to college , i went there with sc 30,31,31b, 38 ,39 , ual , wood chipper and mewp . i went there to gain skills that sadly training out in the industry could not offer nor could it offer the time to keep parctising till i got it right and further more if you got it wrong there was nothing underneath to hurt !!. you may have had 3 bad climbers from merrist wood but i know of alot that are now leaders in the industry !!!! as for having every qualification when they leave then the fees would double , the length of the course would double and to be fair how many climbers do you know that need pa units ?? .

 

as for the job taking as long as it takes to get the job done safely being a load of crap (your words not mine) How the f**k do you expect someone to get any experiance and work efficiently and safely if they are expected to work at industry pace ?? it really does F**K me right of that there is all this bravado within the industry its crap like this that leads young guys to try and race which causes accidents which in turn puts the insurance premiums up !!!!!

 

in one sentence your shouting about qualifications and the next your more or less stating that these guys need to come strate out of college with the level of experiance that a guy has got form 2-3 years in the industry and work at the same pace !!! it aint going to happen and if this is the way in which your deciding who is and who is not any good then i really think you need to have a re-think on your approach to taking guys on , more to the point im sure if some one such as Jack Kenyon were to see you as an arborist he would probably have a list of faults with you , just the same as he would me . im not trying to get personal but take a look back to when you started out . you knew just as little as any of the rest of us but as we progress we learn more and improve on productivity .

 

finally as for the remark that the college seems to fill their heads full of **** i think that its more a case that once again bravardo seems to be the way to impress in this trade and thats what they try to do . i personally have tried my best not to behave like that as i feel that it will get you no where . the guys i have taken on fresh out of college have what i feel is required to start work in the trade and now it is up to them and the employer to improve there skills base and qualifications such as cs40,41 , chipper , mewp , ua units etc etc .

 

rant over:laugh1:

[Highland Forestry]

NOT true.

 

So you are telling me that my insurance company will cover me comprehensivley if I dont have a loler inspection, dont have a ticket for climbing, dont have a record of usage, dont have a health and safety policy etc?

 

 

If that is the case why have any of us bothered to do any training whatsoever?