How much for a groundie... But different!

[eggsarascal]

A little while ago I advertised a job as I needed a person, four days a week to help me clear my back-log of hedges (I lay hedges...).

Not many useful replies I got but there was one that seemed promising. The chap lived a bit far away though so decided to stay in a B&B some 35 miles from the job...

We agreed on £70/day, 8 till 5.

Main part of the job is throwing brash over the hedge. No skills, no qualifications no tools needed. (and he came with none of the above)

 

Day 1, he was late, no explanation or apology. Needed showing what to do etc so not much of an impression.

 

Day 2, late again, no explanation or apology. Seemed to get on ok? I had to rush off early to sort issues on the farm at home so left 1.5 hours early and told him to finish off (about 40 mins work).

 

Day 3, We agreed on a late (9:30) start as I had to take lambs to the abattoir in the morn first. My car broke down on the way to the job and as it was my birthday I thought: "%%% it, I'm going home!" called the boy (who told me he'd been on site for 10 minutes, it was 9:50 and paid him anyway for the whole day. (I like being generous on my birthday...)

 

Day 4, late again! I got to the job, finished the work he was supposed to do on day 2 in less than 20 minutes.

So, when he did arrive I told him about my being unsure as to tell him to *** off or not and if he wanted to work he'd better get a *** move on!

A decent bollocking it was, and it was just. It helped a bit as well as he worked harder for the rest of the day than the previous days.

 

Then followed a week of no him, as he said he couldn't find suitable accommodation. I sorted out a B&B a lot closer to the job, on my route there to save him the travel. It was £25 (£10/night more) so I offered to pay £75/day and he'd easily save the rest by not having to drive 35 miles twice a day. All good?

 

 

Day 5. On time! I collected him from the B&B, went to work.

He was rather slow I thought, but he was doing just brash and it can be a tedious task that is often more work than it looks.

 

Day 6. On time again! At break time I tried to gently express my need for a bit more speed (after having carefully enquired to his physical well-being, he said he was ok), at lunch time I tried to entice him to work a bit harder by asking what his favourite drink was.

I promised him a bottle if he'd catch up with me (which is how far I was expecting him to get.

 

Nearing the end of the day. I've finished pleaching (end of the hedge, yay!) so I spent a couple of hours throwing brash, like the boy.

In the two hours I cleared 30m.

In the two previous days (5&6) he'd not yet cleared 80m. I measured this as I was amazed, surely he'd not been that slow? I went for a little stroll to cool the head.

On the way home I asked him to calculate me this: If I take two hours to clear 30m, how many hours could I reasonably expect somebody else to need to do 90m.

We're on site for 10 hours, 2 hours of breaks etc, leaves a generous two hours extra I thought? So how were we to address this issue? I suggested I could pay him less than half, as he'd done less than half the work.

I could take it on the chin, it is unreasonable to expect people to work (i was going to add "hard" then, but don't think it fair)

 

I dropped him off at the B&B, saying "I'm not expecting you to work quite as hard as me, but a bit more effort would be great. Or do you prefer to be paid a lot less? Think about it, have a good meal, get some rest, let me know"

I thought "that went ok-ish, I've stayed calm and friendly and given him a chance to step up and be counted as a Man!"

 

Next morn. "I've decided to not work any more, I'm going home. Pay me what you think is fair"

 

So, dearly beloved member of the jury: How much?

 

£70/day, 70 miles round journey, paying for a B&B, it was never going to work, was it?

 

I don't doubt what you are saying about this lad but, what did you expect?

[luftwaffe]

1. Why accept poor time keeping.

 

2. £70.day, is a piss poor rate.

 

3.why haven't you told him sooner that you expect much more from him.

 

4. Why is here lodgeing 35 mile away to start with.

 

5. He was never the right man for the job, lacked drive and commitment to say the least.

[Ian Leach]

Just pay him what you said, learn from it. Never going to work especially on that money for travel & b&b .

[Joe Newton]

£70 a day is a good deal, for unskilled labour. The travel is the employees issue, not yours. You wouldn't take a job 30 miles further away for an extra £500 a year would you?

 

That said it sounds like you let too much slide. First day late, express displeasure. Second consecutive day, start taking wages for time not working.

 

Communication was missing here. If you employ a young unskilled lad you have to be clear in what you expect of them. You could suggest dropping the day rate £20 and offering a £20 bonus for if expectations are met.

 

As for the "employ old fogeys, we work twice as hard as young'uns" rubbish, I can work harder, for longer, on account of my being able to eat solids. and not having to empty my colostomy bag every five minutes. Plus the cab doesn't smell of cabbage soup on the way home!

[Gary Prentice]

Less of the old fogies, you young whippersnapper:biggrin:

 

The old uns work better cos they have two hands, not one permanently attached to their mobiles:001_tt2:

[eggsarascal]

£70 a day is a good deal, for unskilled labour. The travel is the employees issue, not yours. You wouldn't take a job 30 miles further away for an extra £500 a year would you?

 

That said it sounds like you let too much slide. First day late, express displeasure. Second consecutive day, start taking wages for time not working.

 

Communication was missing here. If you employ a young unskilled lad you have to be clear in what you expect of them. You could suggest dropping the day rate £20 and offering a £20 bonus for if expectations are met.

 

As for the "employ old fogeys, we work twice as hard as young'uns" rubbish, I can work harder, for longer, on account of my being able to eat solids. and not having to empty my colostomy bag every five minutes. Plus the cab doesn't smell of cabbage soup on the way home!

 

Joe, turn things around! If you were the gaffer paying £70/day for a bloke that was travelling 70 miles a day and paying for a b&b what would you expect?

 

I wouldn't even dream of taking the bloke on!....... Would you?

[Joe Newton]

Joe, turn things around! If you were the gaffer paying £70/day for a bloke that was travelling 70 miles a day and paying for a b&b what would you expect?

 

 

 

I wouldn't even dream of taking the bloke on!....... Would you?

 

 

Not at all, you can see the problems a mile off.

 

My comment was based on "for £70 what do you expect".

 

Thing is, a worker, young or old, shouldn't accept work that they can't afford to travel to. If they accept the pay for hours worked, that's that.

 

In reality however...

[bolthole]

Here's the thing; it's about taking responsibility.

 

If I'm offered a job that's 35 miles away and I have to pay for my accommodation out of my wage, it's my responsibility. What you don't to is grudgingly accept the offer and then do half a job because the reality is somehow beginning to hit home. You crack on and do the job and maybe next time, the job will be on your doorstep and it'll all be gravy, but either way.... you do the job.

 

The thing with managing the lad - you've got to nip it in the bud and tell them on the first day. Maybe at the end of the first day. If they don't perform up to scratch over the whole job then pay them what you agreed and don't use them again. If they grossly underperform then kick them off the job and pay them to date. Let them know that you won't be and why when you pay them. Don't tie yourself up in knots - it's up to them to learn.

 

The young/old thing - yeh... a lot of young workers haven't gained the maturity or had enough experience of responsability in life to have learned that if you accept work, you do what the right thing and turn up on time and graft.

 

I know some older types like this too and there are younger people who are absolute crackers and keen as mustard, so let's not draw the battle lines on age grounds. I do know what people mean though. Bloody mobile 'phones.

 

To the OP - it's a shame you're in Lincs. I'd love to learn to lay and you wouldn't have any problems with me. I am an 'old' guy though!

[Daniël Bos]

1. Why accept poor time keeping.

 

2. £70.day, is a piss poor rate.

 

3.why haven't you told him sooner that you expect much more from him.

 

4. Why is here lodgeing 35 mile away to start with.

 

5. He was never the right man for the job, lacked drive and commitment to say the least.

 

1. The first day he'd come a long way -85 miles- every day after was weakness from my part. I prefer positive motivation.

 

2. Yep, but all I need is a person to throw twigs. No skills or quals needed.

 

3. I did,*on the second day I tried some gentle encouragement On the third day of work, I let him no in terms not to be misunderstood.

 

4. There's lodging as little as 2 miles away but he chose to stay 35m away as it was cheapest.

 

5. No way of knowing that from a phone "interview"

[Daniël Bos]

Thanks for all your input so far people! It's really great to get many different angles on this to help "calibrate my moral compass"

 

I suppose it's easy to say that it was no good to start with afterwards.

In my country ve haf saying: "With hindsight you can look up up a cow's arsehole"...

 

Yes, I should have been clearer about what I find unacceptable. I'd just not come across somebody with even lower standards than me before. I've had about ten different people working for me. Ranging from super efficient never need telling ought to severely autistic and dyspraxic.

 

The question is now, after the experience with this boy, how much pay is fair for his last two days?