Signing on employee training completion

[Gnome]

We have just done a 1 day rolo health and safety course before cscs, don't under stand how ladder training is the same cost as tower scaffold 1

 

 

I've got to do all the thinking and clever stuff as well and my assistant turns up, takes a wage and doesn't need to think( and has no intention of thinking) so I know where you are coming from.

 

I prefer using the tower to ladders any day of the week, might take a lot longer but I know I am safer.

 

Just thought I would offer you a solution.

[simonm]

Years ago my friend had to do a ladder course while working on the council, I couldn't believe there was such a thing. It's not until you see how some people work that you realise that in the day and age where people sue at the drop of a hat these courses are needed to cover yourself against accidents that could have being avoided using common sense.

[AardvarkTreeServices]

Get rid.

 

+1(maybe)

 

You've already given him training and he still hasnt learnt. Putting him on a documented training course should help you avoid liability but an accident is still likely. If you dont get shut of him do a toolbox talk about ladder safety and get him to sign it. If you explain why you've got him to sign it maybe the penny will drop?

[Acg128]

Bin him off.. Why pay for courses to cover yourself when he makes a mistake and hurts himself or someone all that's doing is keeping the worry and stress but your also paying for it!! Crazy. You need to employ proper people with common sense qualified and experienced in the work you require to be carried out for the two days a week you have off for quoting, servicing etc.. That's what I do.

[Hodge]

He will graft but that's it. He can only labour, when it comes to common sense there is none, when we go fencing after 2 years he still can't set out without me. Now the buisness has grown I can no longer be in 3 places at once, on site working looking at jobs servicing tackle etc. it frustrates me having to do everything & Worrying about him dropping a bollock and hurting himself or someone else. I'm coming to the conclusion that minimum wagers are useless! I'd rather pay someone £10 an hour and not have to struggle on

 

 

I've been there and done that, I just realised that I'm not a nanny and have better things to do in life than try to help lads that won't help themselves. I tell the young guns over and over you can graft as hard as hell but it counts for nothing if you don't use your brain. I suggest you talk to him and explain you frustrations and give him the ultimatum. You have 2 weeks to sort yourself out or I will get someone else. That's why I get subbies in as they graft and have their own gear which they look after, and they know what they are doing.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

He will graft but that's it. He can only labour, when it comes to common sense there is none, when we go fencing after 2 years he still can't set out without me. Now the buisness has grown I can no longer be in 3 places at once, on site working looking at jobs servicing tackle etc. it frustrates me having to do everything & Worrying about him dropping a bollock and hurting himself or someone else. I'm coming to the conclusion that minimum wagers are useless! I'd rather pay someone £10 an hour and not have to struggle on

 

Why not give him a 'trial' saying IF he pulls his socks up n starts working more independently and proficiently you will consider increasing his hourly rate anything upto £10 an hour...incentivise him, or at least try.

 

End of day, in terms of how far to go to cover your employers duties, the requirement is to do what is 'reasonable', open to interpretation to some extent, but a key aspect is also supervision and support

 

Good luck..

Paul

[Mat]

I am a small 2 man ltd company, my employee often thinks that doing things the bone idle way and more often than not the unsafe way is perfectly fine! He doesn't climb and does mostly labouring. He has nptc tickets but the other things he does setting tower scaffold up, ladders on the correct angle etc he has learnt from me. I feel like I have to constantly repeat myself in an effort to look out for his, mine and others safety, my question is if for example he did not set the ladders correctly when hedge cutting and fell, hurt himself or someone else it would come down to me the employer and would me verbally showing and demonstrating how to do something be sufficient in the eyes of h&s? Do you do toolbox talks demonstrations etc and get your employees to sign saying they have understood and will comply? In the event of an accident responsibility lies with the employee.

 

It could just be that you lad is a labourer, and will not amount to anything more.

 

This should not be taken as a critisism or failure of him... You may actually be employing the best grafting labourer to will ever meet.

 

Trying to adapt him (by whatever means) to more 'skilled' tasks (such as setting up ladders, or setting out fencing) may just be beyond what he chooses to apply himself to.

 

At best, he may be rubbish and unmotivated at these tasks, which may negatively effect his labouring ability as well.

 

At worst, he could expose you, himself or others to a whole world of hurt (and I don't just mean physical pain).

 

If he is of no use, do both of you a favour and seriously consider his future with you.

 

If he really is a great labourer, and you business can support this type of 'one trick pony' / 'blunt tool' , accept him for the asset he is.

 

A hammer is a blunt tool, but its often more useful than even the sharpest chisel.

[Mat]

Can you not put him on a PASMA course for the tower and Ladder Association course for ladders then it's up to him surely?

 

You cant do anything other than show him her what to do / how to do it, supervise for 10-15 mins or however long you need. Reminders when they use a piece of equiptment.

 

Then it just falls down to having employers liability insurance and making sure who ever works for you has common sense and ability to learn and get on with the job. Dont suffer fools

 

+1(maybe)

 

You've already given him training and he still hasnt learnt. Putting him on a documented training course should help you avoid liability but an accident is still likely. If you dont get shut of him do a toolbox talk about ladder safety and get him to sign it. If you explain why you've got him to sign it maybe the penny will drop?

 

As an employer, you have a duty to provide whatever information, instruction, training and supervision as is necessary to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health and safety at work of your employees. (The Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974)

 

The problem is that although you can 'outsource' things like training, you can't outsource supervision.

 

Unfortunately, if you have set him to work doing things that you don't really trust to do without injuring himself or others, it is hard to argue that he is under a suitable level of supervision.

 

For this reason, all the training in the world may not improve you situation with him that much.

 

If you want him to do more skilled things - he is going to require more supervision (so you may as well just do the thing yourself in the first place).

 

Are you in a position where you business could support a third (more skilled) employee?

[ReubenHayes]

I'm in the same mind as Mat, it sounds like you have tried hard to get him to understand. If you do put him on a course, will he take it all in? Is he likely to turn around at the end of the day as say, ah now I see why you tell me to do it this way! It's unlikely by the sounds of what you have said (although only you can really say how he would take it all in).

 

It does sound like he has reached his ability and there is nothing wrong in that and if he can be of use as a labourer then that's great. Have you worked out what else he can do? vehicle maintenance, dealing with clients, costing etc.

 

As for what you said, yes you have to do what is 'reasonable'. However, I would say if you have a track record of failures, not understanding what he is supposed to do. Then I'm not sure how the courts would view it. At the end of the day I would expect the question to be: If you have doubts about his ability then as the employer why did you ask him to carryout the task?

[Starscream]

Employ someone who is proficient if your company is growing.. They might cost you more, but they will undoubtedly earn you more. Also, peace of mind is worth a lot more than a few

quid. Undue stress is not a good thing.