To climb or not to climb with a First Aid Bag? That is the question....

[Katie at FoxMedics]

CAT tourniquets are priceless. Direct and indirect pressure are vital and if you have cut through a major artery you will not survive to climb down a tree even at speed. I would apply a tourniquet to prevent any major bleed, a tourniquet has to be left on a while to cause any damage to limbs and its the release of the tourniquet that would create this all of which should not be happening until the person is safely in the hands of a specialist team of people in the hospital environment and not in the pre hospital setting..

[Mountain man]

You can't get down from a tree in 60 secs?

If your rope is long enough to descend dump the chainsaw and you can be down in 20 sec max.

Assuming you're not up a welly or something.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Mountain man

[Mr. Squirrel]

Agreed with you DJP, to my understanding if a torniquet is left in place for any length of time you can pretty much say goodbye to the limb. While a chainsaw wound or what have you is potentially pretty terrible, it's not an ied. Anyone trying to get one on me would have to wait until I was unconscious or put up a fight. We're tree surgeons after all, not real surgeons, I'll take my chances and wait for the paramedics...

Celox bandage, or granules and a bandage are pretty much all I'd consider useful to have on your harness.

[fen01]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about CAT. Katie hit the mail on the head. If you've got an arterial bleed you need one! Don't take it off full stop. The surgeon will do that and sort out any potential secondary damage, of which there is little chance tbh. Other option is bleed out, simple as. You've have a bit more time than you think but not much.

 

How many people know how tight the CAT needs to be to be effective? When do you stop winding it up? What effect will type C's have on it effectiveness?

 

For those who haven't used them, keep tighten until the bleed stops. This is going to hurt a lot more than the injury - is anyone really going to do that properly in a tree? I don't believe many people have the mental strength to self apply one properly - I don't think I could!

 

Not sure how type C's would effect a CATs effectiveness, but from what I've seen of them being applied over stuff in pockets, they'll just have to be tighter. Any thoughts Katie?

 

I suppose what we should be taking about is crush injuries as that would appear to be the main killer \cause of injury to tree workers. I don't have much experience of treating them?

[Stephen Blair]

i thought celox had been proved to be bad for you and the best method is a dressing with something similar in it.

[fen01]

i thought celox had been proved to be bad for you and the best method is a dressing with something similar in it.

 

Not heard that, but quick clot used to burn tissue if not used properly. Think over spill was the problem. There are areas of the body where celox shouldn't be stuffed, like the neck or chest cavity iirc.

[Mr. Squirrel]

There have been several generations of celox. Earlier ones produced heat and were perhaps more of an issue to clean up in hospital. More recent ones are allot safer I believe.

Interesting stuff re. CAT, I will have to read into this some more... agreed though that I can't imagine applying one in mid air being very practical.

Crush injuries and the treatment of spinal injuries is probably a far more important topic though, yeah. Bleeds are simple, stop the blood flow, go to hospital. What do you do if a guy damages his spine in a tree though?

Edited February 19, 2015 by Mr. Squirrel

[cornish wood burner]

My lad used to carry two CATs when he did his last tours in Afghanistan. As he said two of his limbs could be damaged or two other soldiers injured. Two should not be needed for tree work but my point is these CATs are highly thought of by the military. He also mentioned that as they are fairly wide they are less damaging than a narrower item. Could be a life saver if the worst happens.

[Joe Newton]

You can't get down from a tree in 60 secs?

If your rope is long enough to descend dump the chainsaw and you can be down in 20 sec max.

Assuming you're not up a welly or something.

 

 

And assuming that the tail of your rope is routed directly beneath you, which isn't often in a decent size hardwood

[Daythe trees]

Another vote for CATs, I have used them and seen a friend self apply. They bloody work, however you need to keep twisting even as you scream, twist until it stops bleeding then lock it off. Once you get out of the tree get another put above ready to go in case the leak starts again.

 

I carry one on me and maybe three four in the van plus celox and Israeli bandages. Each rear door has identical kits, to prevent someone going to the wrong door or it being boxed in.

 

Paranoid? No, but they are all out to get me