Safety - say it like it is...

[Safety Steve]

Just a reminder of the OP for the newcomers to the coliseum....

 

I am thinking; Lions 5 - OSH 2:blushing:?

 

Ok - into the den of lions we go.....

 

I am after some advice from members regarding the development of my health, safety and sustainability professional services. This is NOT a tout for business (at the moment).

 

I am a Charted Fellow of IOSH (the most recognised professional body) and personally very interested in the various commercial/private working environments covered by members. I am at that point in my career where I am going to do what I enjoy - rather than chase the £'s.

 

I am an ex engineer 'safety professional' (ie not an arborist or TS) with my own equipment which I have used for 20 years in a domestic user, (saws, brush cutters, 360 JCB, dumper and Kubota tractor with various attachments and buckets etc etc.) I don't climb but used to look after safety of a LA (parks, verge cutting risk assessments and vetting contractors! etc).

 

My (serious) request for your thoughts; does this industry have sufficient 'modern' safety professionals working for it? Ie not client led - but in house or 'on tap' advisors who look after your business and actually help you to win contracts, liaise with clients or help manage subbies etc).

 

I fully appreciate larger organisations will have in house services - but it is you smaller guys that I would enjoy working with more. If there is a general 'yes' I will use the appropriate place on here to sell my wares - this is more of a survey. It would be useful if you gave your current setup so I can see who thinks what.

 

Just as an example of 'modern safety' - I'd rather see you use a smart phone for site risk assessment and those awkward crown 'reduction' plans than start filling out lengthy forms....

 

No holds barred - say it like it is ! And thanks just for reading this far .

[scotspine1]

Safety Steve,

 

Is this what you want to do?

 

Elcoat Ltd - Strategy, Governance & Operations

 

 

 

.

[maria warwick]

My particular "beef" with our current H & S culture is that it absolutly prohibits anyone THINKING, cos, jeeze thats a proper dangerous pastime.

One MUST follow these proscribed steps/processes ONLY.

Do NOT think.

Bah, bah, bah!(thats meant to be sheep noises btw.)

 

 

Yeh , second that……

 

 

Years ago ( before mobile phones ) we used to have to plan a job , thinking about all the possible problems and outcomes and what materials/ tools were needed…..….we even used common sense……

 

Everyone is in so much of a rush to get stuff done these days……..

 

It all revolves around money …….. just earn less and live a bit more simply……and safely.

( oops , can of worms now open ! )

Edited January 29, 2015 by maria warwick

[Safety Steve]

thanks Scotspine - nearly... I do several of the same thing but I prefer to be much more hands on. Getting things done to actually help the business efficiency (aka safety and health). To clarify; I don't pretend to be anything I am not, you are the experts etc etc... but I know my way around OSH, the 'why' and 'why not' and the 'how' and the which what?'

 

Keep 'em coming..... I still got some OSH Gladiators to bring out for you to snack on......

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

One simply CANNOT "fix stupid".

 

My particular "beef" with our current H & S culture is that it absolutly prohibits anyone THINKING, cos, jeeze thats a proper dangerous pastime.

One MUST follow these proscribed steps/processes ONLY.

Do NOT think.

Bah, bah, bah!(thats meant to be sheep noises btw.)

 

Only saw that bit when it was re-quoted.

 

To be fair that's pish, and the absolute opposite is true but considerably less fashionable to acknowledge it!

 

That's 1 gladiator down!

[gensetsteve]

Years ago we left school and spent 4 years being trained by a team of mature experienced men. This gave you knowledge and the ability to plan and avoid risk as you worked.

 

I cant help feeling this sudden urge to write a manual for every operation is due to companies employing low grade untrained minimum wage staff.

 

I fully support health and safety when its used to preserve the working mans life. Looking at why an accident happened and putting measures in place to prevent it happening again.

 

Where its gone wrong is a huge industry of little hitlers who justify their being by creating havoc on site throwing their weight about and paying themselves huge salaries. These salaries would be better spent actually improving site conditions rather than putting up signs saying piece of wood with nail sticking up. Try picking the debris up.

[wrsni]

I fully support health and safety when its used to preserve the working mans life. Looking at why an accident happened and putting measures in place to prevent it happening again.

 

Where its gone wrong is a huge industry of little hitlers who justify their being by creating havoc on site throwing their weight about and paying themselves huge salaries. These salaries would be better spent actually improving site conditions rather than putting up signs saying piece of wood with nail sticking up. Try picking the debris up.

 

Good post, fully agree with all of that.

[GreenGui]

Years ago we left school and spent 4 years being trained by a team of mature experienced men. This gave you knowledge and the ability to plan and avoid risk as you worked.

 

I cant help feeling this sudden urge to write a manual for every operation is due to companies employing low grade untrained minimum wage staff.

 

I fully support health and safety when its used to preserve the working mans life. Looking at why an accident happened and putting measures in place to prevent it happening again.

 

Where its gone wrong is a huge industry of little hitlers who justify their being by creating havoc on site throwing their weight about and paying themselves huge salaries. These salaries would be better spent actually improving site conditions rather than putting up signs saying piece of wood with nail sticking up. Try picking the debris up.

 

Indeed. IMO it depends on your age, if you come from that back ground as I do you see things exactly like that. One of the things that caused me to become disillusioned with ISO quality training was the stated objective of the trainer of "taking an untrained person off the street and getting them to do your job by reading the manual" that first hand quote has always stuck in my mind. It's not the subject matter directly but its all part and parcel of the same issue: Money.

[difflock]

Only saw that bit when it was re-quoted.

 

To be fair that's pish, and the absolute opposite is true but considerably less fashionable to acknowledge it!

 

That's 1 gladiator down!

 

Kevin.

Apologies, but since I have worked in Northern Ireland Local Government since 1984, I beg to differ.

Senior officers prefer acolytes to good safe, productive (but challenging, cos hey dey got a functioning brain, like!) workers.

Thust me, I know, unfortunately for my mental wellbeing.

From a humble supervisory perspective.

Where I get to answer for their sins, but cannot tell them how to do, cos hey, they know better.

Everything, absolutly every apparently inconsequential instruction, needs to be issued in WRITING, OR "IT DID NOT HAPPEN"

Seriously.

No human being can run a multi-tasking do-it-all squad on such a basis.

For instance, very recently, I instructed an employee to leave 2 heavy petrol engined pressure washers back, p'washers on wheels with handle-bars.

said p washers were already on the back of a 3500kg beavertail.

The hire depot was about 10 miles away.

I issued the instruction at about 08:10.

At 09:20 I observed a dropside pick-up leaving the depot with the 2 pressure washers on the back, along with a whole clatter o hoses and lances.

The beavertail then sat parked up all day, being otherwise uneeded.

This dropside pick up is used for pitch maint, the pitch they were going to first lay very near the hire depot.

Why did a senior 20 year experienced man cross load these stores, with some difficulty as I was wrly and reliably informed.

They should "obviously" have taken BOTH vehicles, one to backload the stores, one to commence pitch maint works.

Yet "bad back" claims still abound, but/and ALL our staff have had had multiple approved Manual Handling training.

Stupid CANNOT be fixed.

m

Edited January 29, 2015 by difflock

[Mat]

Yeh , second that……

 

 

Years ago ( before mobile phones ) we used to have to plan a job , thinking about all the possible problems and outcomes and what materials/ tools were needed…..….we even used common sense……

 

Everyone is in so much of a rush to get stuff done these days……..

 

It all revolves around money …….. just earn less and live a bit more simply……and safely.

( oops , can of worms now open ! )

 

Are you sure you second that?

 

 

Surely the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regs made it a legal requirement to do EXACTLY what you are saying since 1999