Climbers disciplined for refusing tree

[bigtreedon]

When I was nineteen I went to work in the USA this was fifteen years ago I went wanting to gain experience in larger trees and to use what I considered at the time more advanced techniques and better machinery which I felt I did but still to this day one of the most valuable things I brought away from my three years there was to push my self way beyond my comfort zone in a situation that I thought I couldn't do but then after I did felt so much self belief and grew as a climber because of it the turning point was one day I can remember it like it was yesterday I went to do some removels with the forman I worked with a very capable and knowledgeable climber twenty five years into his career at that time we got to sight looked at the trees to do and there was a dead red oak Tree nothing to break under neath but didn't look nice had allot of bark missing wasn't tall mayb fifty feet I was told u can do that and than we will move onto some trees near the house I decided my stomach hurt and didn't want to do it so was asked a couple more times if I was sure than he put his Gear on ran up tree crashed it out in ten min max got in truck pulled chipper as far away as possible and said chip it up the I regretted it all the time I was dragging thinking why did I lie about my stomach and not just be a man and do the tree we both laffed about it later in the time I was there he said he new I could do the tree or wouldn't of asked me to I have never refused or made up a excuse since I have been a contract climber for the last ten years specialising in large tree removals I see horrible unsafe trees on a regular basis a pride and want to be the best I can be and test my abilities and knowledge as a climber is what drives me not just to make a wage and go home

[Tom D]

When I was nineteen I went to work in the USA this was fifteen years ago I went wanting to gain experience in larger trees and to use what I considered at the time more advanced techniques and better machinery which I felt I did but still to this day one of the most valuable things I brought away from my three years there was to push my self way beyond my comfort zone in a situation that I thought I couldn't do but then after I did felt so much self belief and grew as a climber because of it the turning point was one day I can remember it like it was yesterday I went to do some removels with the forman I worked with a very capable and knowledgeable climber twenty five years into his career at that time we got to sight looked at the trees to do and there was a dead red oak Tree nothing to break under neath but didn't look nice had allot of bark missing wasn't tall mayb fifty feet I was told u can do that and than we will move onto some trees near the house I decided my stomach hurt and didn't want to do it so was asked a couple more times if I was sure than he put his Gear on ran up tree crashed it out in ten min max got in truck pulled chipper as far away as possible and said chip it up the I regretted it all the time I was dragging thinking why did I lie about my stomach and not just be a man and do the tree we both laffed about it later in the time I was there he said he new I could do the tree or wouldn't of asked me to I have never refused or made up a excuse since I have been a contract climber for the last ten years specialising in large tree removals I see horrible unsafe trees on a regular basis a pride and want to be the best I can be and test my abilities and knowledge as a climber is what drives me not just to make a wage and go home

 

 

Good post.

 

I refused to do a tree when I was green, it was a big old lime with a cavity that would take a full broom handle. The client got my friend and rival Robbie to do it, he did a nice reduction and it is still standing today....

[bigtreedon]

Ya those situations stick with u and hopefully drive us to constantly get better and never think we have made it to the top excuse the pun ;-)

[skyhuck]

When I was learning to spike, I was practicing on a large dead Elm, it had been de-limbed, I was up near the top, maybe 60ft up, the guy I was working with cut a huge burr off the base.

 

I crapped myself, when I got down there was a hole in the trunk the size of the large fire place, the tree was hollow.

 

It was scary at the time, but taught me a great deal about the strength of timber and trees, I've never worried about trees with cavities, after all if the last gale did not fell it my 12.5 stone ain't gonna make much odds.

[JLA Arborists]

Although you must take care you don't learn anything in your comfort zone.

[mike83]

Having worked both full time and freelance I clearly felt a big difference in my level of care as to whether I did a tree or not. In a big company its easy to hide when you're feeling less than on point, but freelance work means no cutting no pay.

Working for a firm or freelancing seems to be the difference between plateauing and pushing yourself.

Of course some have more drive or determination or even the most dangerous trait bravado and will achieve more than the dude that hides. Each to their own.

What I do know is the smaller firms I've worked for tended to have better ethos, better time frames.

Bigger firms seems to be smash it out on to next one.

[jltree]

Should employ more experienced staff.. End of the day I can see workers point of view if he regarded it as dangerous, but then how experienced was he>?

On the other hand I see it from an employer point of view and bet that team still wanted paying. I see lads who cant be bothered on jobs so say its dangerous..

[Mountain man]

.....

[mike83]

Trouble is you're happy to start your career off on a wage like £8 but you'll always be wondering if the grass is greener.

 

With big companies it ain't always, with smaller firms it often is but work might not be so consistent.

 

The firm obviously either doesn't value the skill the lads have (which leads to a **** you mentallity) or the lads that coulda climbed it have done what I did and gone freelance as they know the moneys a joke and long term your gonna get pushed harder and be a better arb for it.

 

There is however a lot to be said for a good **** job and many are plobaly just cruising along. Fair play when ya got kids, mortgage etc.

[sawmonkey220]

Sorry for not updating folks, was too busy taking stupid risks for no financial gain over the weekend but thats what hobbies are for! Regarding the hearing, the lads decided to go in with our H&S rep so I wasn't present. I'll try and fill you in as best I can.

The reasons why the climbers felt the trees were unsafe were: ground was waterlogged, three neighbouring larch had uprooted, trees were infested with ivy preventing proper inspection. These seem like reasonable enough concerns to me I suppose but the manager concerned did not try to reason with the men but just resorted to shouting. A risk assessment was carried out but our standard RA doesnt have space for entries regarding tree condition and none of us are qualified to make judgements about what is dangerous.

At the hearing the company asserted that the main reason for refusal to climb was down to the boys wanting to get home on time rather than legitimate safety concerns, not having been there I can't really comment on that. One of the other amusing policies implemented by the company is that we don't get overtime until we've worked 44 1/2 hours. All the men, including the guy with less than a years experience received final written warnings. Regarding the question of low pay, ok its not directly relevant but pay rate is usually commensurate with experience. With this company and in this financially underdeveloped region that is Northern Ireland employers can get away with paying ridiculously low wages as there are few other companies to go to. Ive worked with most of these guys for three years and none of them have ever before refused a tree.

Speaking only for myself, Ive been climbing for just over 7 years and have never refused to climb either though should have done a few times- I think trying to work with frozen ropes at easter 2010 was probably the worst. I totally understand alot of the comments above regarding the nature of the job- I love a challenge. Just wanted to know how much we had to justify our decision if we were face with something we thought dangerous. Also very interested re dog crap comments- we usually just trail on and hope we can get it all washed off before lunch!

Final note on the climbers, two of the six handed in their notice today and will be moving onto better things and good luck to them.