Wood/carpenters chisels

[jamesd]

Very useful page Morten. The only things I would add are:

 

1. You might come across reference to blue steel and white steel. The construction of a Japanese chisel has a thin strip of hard steel laminated to the softer iron body. The steel can be 'blue' (tougher) or 'white' (harder). You can't tell which it is unless the description says, but generally blue steel would be used for heavier type and cheaper chisels, whilst white steel would be used for high end fine bladed and paring type chisels.

 

2. The maker's name does tell you something. Most chisels are 'signed'. Modern machine-made chisels usually have a stamped in name, whilst expensive hand-made chisels are pretty much always signed by carving the name in. If you are buying new, they will almost certainly be machine-made and stamped in. In practice, since reading the name is next to impossible (unless you read Japanese!) it only matters if you are buying old secondhand tools and want to try to work out what you have. Obviously if you buy secondhand tools with hand carved in names and rosewood or ebony handles it is clear that somebody went to a lot of trouble, which typically means the blades will also be excellent.

 

Alec

 

Are most of the ones you have brought hand made then? what sort of work do you use them for fine furniture making or heavier work?

[agg221]

Are most of the ones you have brought hand made then? what sort of work do you use them for fine furniture making or heavier work?

 

I was given a small set of 4 standard modern oire-nomi about 15yrs ago, which work nicely for light stuff. I have then bought various random mixed lots on ebay, from Japan, so long as they contain the size I need. This has resulted in quite a few rusty, disreputable looking objects, some of which have turned out to be very nice, hand made chisels underneath. Because I want them to use, I am not so worried that the original black finish has gone, and they may need re-handling (although this is rare). I am mostly using them for heavy cutting in oak, sometimes fairly seasoned, hence the need for heavier blades. I am careful about how I use them, but they get worked hard and I have never had a blade chip - the heavy ones will be blue steel for this reason.

 

Alec

[jamesd]

I was given a small set of 4 standard modern oire-nomi about 15yrs ago, which work nicely for light stuff. I have then bought various random mixed lots on ebay, from Japan, so long as they contain the size I need. This has resulted in quite a few rusty, disreputable looking objects, some of which have turned out to be very nice, hand made chisels underneath. Because I want them to use, I am not so worried that the original black finish has gone, and they may need re-handling (although this is rare). I am mostly using them for heavy cutting in oak, sometimes fairly seasoned, hence the need for heavier blades. I am careful about how I use them, but they get worked hard and I have never had a blade chip - the heavy ones will be blue steel for this reason.

 

Alec

 

Thanks again for the help, i'll be using them for similar work. so the oire-nomi chisels may not be suitable for me then. I think the tataki nomi ones may suit me better as they are described as "striking chisels"

[teepeeat]

I was given a small set of 4 standard modern oire-nomi about 15yrs ago, which work nicely for light stuff. I have then bought various random mixed lots on ebay, from Japan, so long as they contain the size I need. This has resulted in quite a few rusty, disreputable looking objects, some of which have turned out to be very nice, hand made chisels underneath. Because I want them to use, I am not so worried that the original black finish has gone, and they may need re-handling (although this is rare). I am mostly using them for heavy cutting in oak, sometimes fairly seasoned, hence the need for heavier blades. I am careful about how I use them, but they get worked hard and I have never had a blade chip - the heavy ones will be blue steel for this reason.

 

Alec

 

Alec, why your preference for Japanese chisels over European ones?

[agg221]

Alec, why your preference for Japanese chisels over European ones?

 

A combination of several reasons really:

The construction means that the edge can be left harder, so they can take a better edge and stay sharp longer. I find this helps in very hard wood such seasoned oak (I believe there are some window frame companies which use them for cutting aluminium!).

The tang, collar and hoop construction makes them extremely robust. I have some old C19 Robert Sorby chisels which I inherited. These include socket chisels, where I find the handle eventually works loose due to slight sideways movement, and mortice chisels which have a tang onto a flat, with a leather pad, which work better but the handle can split. The combination in the Japanese design self-tightens and holds well without splitting.

A certain level of laziness (aka speed!) in that the Japanese chisels are sharpened at a single angle, rather than double bevel, so I only have to set the angle once per sharpening. Polishing the backs by design also keeps them clean and smooth running as you cut.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I get pleasure from using them. There is still a culture of craftsmanship in Japan, which extends to the way tools are made. Not quite so true of the fully machine made tools, but I enjoy using something which has been made with skill and care (including a proper wooden handle, with the aesthetics which go with excellence of design.

 

Alec

[Woodworks]

As Alex says the Oire-nomi are very good and I use some on a regular basis but did not suggest them. In your opening post you mention making furniture and benches this sounds to me like largish joints and Oire-nomi chisels have very short blade so not good for larger joints but great for smaller ones.

 

Not all Oire-nomi chisels are equal. I bought a single one some years back (can't remember where from). It is a beautifully made tool that works very well. Picked up a set off APTC (I think) and they are made with far less care and needed a of lot fettling to get them working well and had to grind out almost all of the concave to get the backs flat. Don't think the steel is of the same quality either.

[teepeeat]

A combination of several reasons really:

The construction means that the edge can be left harder, so they can take a better edge and stay sharp longer. I find this helps in very hard wood such seasoned oak (I believe there are some window frame companies which use them for cutting aluminium!).

The tang, collar and hoop construction makes them extremely robust. I have some old C19 Robert Sorby chisels which I inherited. These include socket chisels, where I find the handle eventually works loose due to slight sideways movement, and mortice chisels which have a tang onto a flat, with a leather pad, which work better but the handle can split. The combination in the Japanese design self-tightens and holds well without splitting.

A certain level of laziness (aka speed!) in that the Japanese chisels are sharpened at a single angle, rather than double bevel, so I only have to set the angle once per sharpening. Polishing the backs by design also keeps them clean and smooth running as you cut.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I get pleasure from using them. There is still a culture of craftsmanship in Japan, which extends to the way tools are made. Not quite so true of the fully machine made tools, but I enjoy using something which has been made with skill and care (including a proper wooden handle, with the aesthetics which go with excellence of design.

 

Alec

 

Cheers Alec

Been looking at getting some chisels so might look a bit closer at the Japanese ones with yours and others comments in mind.

[bobh]

Got an email from Rutland's today, lots of different sets on sale

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/pp+sale+SALE?promo=chiselling_sale

[jamesd]

Got an email from Rutland's today, lots of different sets on sale

The BIG TOOL Sale - Chiselling Sale

 

Cheers i've been looking over this set for a while now:

Tataki Nomi Chisels, Woodworking, Hand Tools, Chisels, Japanese Chisels

I believe they are heavier than the orie nomi chisels so i think they would suit me for larger sort of work in oak, ash etc?

[jamesd]

Also been trawling ebay looking for second hand chisels and have not had any luck yet...