How much should a Foreman earn?

[Al Mondz]

Depends on what suits you an the guy you looking for,yes sounds a lot when you look at it that way but if you not supplying kit ect you could problem knock a few grand off that total. You got to pay for quality and offer something different to tempt the right staff. They represent you and what you stand for.

 

 

Exactly. As the saying goes, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

[beechwood]

One issue when looking for staff is that many experienced guys with the abilities your looking for just set up on their own.

 

The mass of small companies competing for work then depress the market.. but that is another issue. I was supprised at the low number of applicants when we were looking earlier in the year. Also supprised when i saw what you were offering. Made me consider going employed..

 

Another firm to us are regularilly trying to poach my lads. Considering all the talk of colleges turning out loads of climbers i have ended up training up 2 guys over the last two years and of the frequent calls i get most have no experience.

 

 

I agree with you we have lots of little 1-2 man bands appearing all the time, most of them disappear within a year or two but they do depress the prices and I guess after a while realise they aren't making any money and go do something else.

 

Can be bloody annoying but I have to remind myself I was in there shoes once.

 

I think the colleges are turning out loads of climbers but as has been discussed you don't have to very good to pass 38,39 and recently nowhere near commercial ability and speed. So when these guys get into the industry many leave within a year or two. I've had a one recently who only wanted climb certain trees! (Very little ones) And another who was very honest and just said he didn't enjoy the climbing as much as he thought he would.

 

We keep battling on.

 

Where did you find the best place to advertise for staff was?

 

Regards Neil

[beechwood]

Exactly. As the saying goes, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

 

 

I've heard the saying not sure I'd agree that £100-140 a day is peanuts

 

The thread is 'How much should a foreman earn?'

 

So come on what do you think. How much?

[Al Mondz]

I didn't mean that the original sum was peanuts, just highlighting the fact about getting the right people and keeping them there whilst looking after them is important. As for your question, I have no idea. I guess it's all down the size and turn over of the company in some respects.

[theflyingscotsman]

Well there will be a cap per foreman dependent on how much he(and his crew) are making for the company..

 

It's not business sense to pay someone a fortune just cos you may want to keep them or they are very good. (Although you may want to)

 

Between 25-35k is more than a fair and good wage..

 

A tiny % of people in tree work will earn 45k a year profit..

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I agree with you we have lots of little 1-2 man bands appearing all the time and much the same in many other small business sectors - the better / ambitious practitioners realise their ambition and set out alone - it's not unique to arb, most of them disappear within a year or two I think FSB state 25% of start up businesses fail within 24 months - so also, not unique to arb but they do depress the prices just my view, but I disagree, they may be able to offer the same / similar service at a lower overhead cost to their operation, I'd suggest the 'take home' or profit margin are similar but the operating costs are lower (esp VAT, there's 20% to start with and I guess after a while realise they aren't making any money and go do something else. Some will, others will grow and flourish until they either reach the point where they are operating at the level they are content with or they continue to grow until they reach, or exceed the point you are at - the reality of that is probably in your own company history?

 

Can be bloody annoying but I have to remind myself I was in there shoes once.

 

I think the colleges are turning out loads of climbers but as has been discussed you don't have to very good to pass 38,39 and recently nowhere near commercial ability and speed. So when these guys get into the industry many leave within a year or two. I've had a one recently who only wanted climb certain trees! (Very little ones) And another who was very honest and just said he didn't enjoy the climbing as much as he thought he would.

 

We keep battling on.

 

Where did you find the best place to advertise for staff was?

 

Regards Neil

 

Hope that doesn't come across as adversarial, it's not meant that way. It's just that I think 'the little guy' is often under represented given that there are so many small outfits in the sector. There was a thread a while back blaming small outfits for driving price down and whilst I only speak for myself, I can assure that I don't work hard for no return - and I can make enough in 3 days Mon-Weds so that I stay home with the little one Thu/Fri, and I have no problem passing up a job that either doesn't appeal or doesn't pay.

 

Isn't it a classic business dilemma - finding your 'stop' point? Maybe the larger the company becomes, the less able it is to compete for domestic work?

 

I'd be interested to hear if you've considered outsourcing some of your operation either through using subbies on a regular basis or by taking the best part of the team and giving that gang boss an assistant manager type function and cutting loose to explore his own lines of development. Difficult to discuss in a forum format, would be a good discussion over a beer.

[skyhuck]

Kevin, while I largely agree with your post, many start up make no money, they mistake turnover for profit, think they are doing ok and then after a few months or years the realise they are making very little, then then either up their rates or quit.

 

In fact in your post you have made one the often stated errors, VAT registered Co's do not have 20% higher costs, remember they claim back the VAT on all their purchases, so at most they may be 10 or 11% higher, but then the commercial clients can claim back the VAT, so over the whole business VAT registration can often add very little to costs or even reduce them.

[Woodcrafter]

Hi I work local to you guys I'd say it's not the advertisement but more the lack of staff in the area or locally in general. We too have advertised with reasonable rates of pay but with little reply. It seems people going self employed and floating amongst a few companies is the trend due to high demand for staff.

My advice would be to up the wage see what you get, negotiate pay after a short trial that demonstrates ability evaluate there worth and offer them what you think would be fair with regard to there worth to the company.

If they weren't up to scratch but had potential, highlight there strong points and then possibly put forward ideas and action plan to make them into what you require.

Don't forget that the working relationships and environment play a big part in winning the staff at this crazy time.

Good luck hope you find what your looking for.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Kevin, while I largely agree with your post, many start up make no money, they mistake turnover for profit, think they are doing ok and then after a few months or years the realise they are making very little, then then either up their rates or quit.

 

In fact in your post you have made one the often stated errors, VAT registered Co's do not have 20% higher costs, remember they claim back the VAT on all their purchases, so at most they may be 10 or 11% higher, but then the commercial clients can claim back the VAT, so over the whole business VAT registration can often add very little to costs or even reduce them.

 

Yes, sorry about that, I should have been clearer. I wasn't suggesting that VAT is an assumed 'increase' in cost overheads to the VAT registered company but rather that, in the domestic domain, that a VAT reg company may be required to present a 20% higher quote to the domestic customer than the non VAT reg operator. That was the point I was, rather poorly, trying to articulate.

 

:thumbup1:

[beechwood]

Hope that doesn't come across as adversarial, it's not meant that way. It's just that I think 'the little guy' is often under represented given that there are so many small outfits in the sector. There was a thread a while back blaming small outfits for driving price down and whilst I only speak for myself, I can assure that I don't work hard for no return - and I can make enough in 3 days Mon-Weds so that I stay home with the little one Thu/Fri, and I have no problem passing up a job that either doesn't appeal or doesn't pay.

 

 

 

Isn't it a classic business dilemma - finding your 'stop' point? Maybe the larger the company becomes, the less able it is to compete for domestic work?

 

 

 

I'd be interested to hear if you've considered outsourcing some of your operation either through using subbies on a regular basis or by taking the best part of the team and giving that gang boss an assistant manager type function and cutting loose to explore his own lines of development. Difficult to discuss in a forum format, would be a good discussion over a beer.

 

 

Sounds like I may have derailed my own thread!

My apologies if I caused offence to you or anyone else.

In answer to your question yes pm me your number and maybe we can arrange to meet.