PAYE vs self employed

[skyhuck]

I wouldn't argue with your point about a potential subby providing UTR to demonstrate "self employed" status, but I question the validity or 'point' of doing so.

 

If I ask someone for their UTR to supposedly fulfil my obligation to due diligence, there is no mechanism for me to confirm they haven't just made up a number and presented it as their UTR. I can't phone HMRC and ask " is Joe Spunktrumpet's UTR 5674568?" They can't tell me because of data protection so it's a pointless exercise!

 

I agree your proposition that seeking the UTR of a prospective subby is supposedly the right thing to do, I just don't see that it makes a toss of difference to anything. If you expand the logic, I should therefore ask Tesco, the local baker, the builders yard to give me their UTR when I buy something from them to "prove" they pay their tax - it's a nonsense!

 

HMRC - I've **** 'em!

 

Thats retail, in retail the responsibility for taxes is solely with the seller, employment is very different.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Thats retail, in retail the responsibility for taxes is solely with the seller, employment is very different.

 

 

OK, granted, perhaps not great examples to illustrate the point, perhaps if I'd said "do you ask your plumber, sparky, builder, mechanic etc etc for their UTR to prove they pay their tax..."

 

It might have illustrated (what I feel) is the pointlessness and inadequacy of recording a UTR as some form of indication that somebody providing a service to you is also doing an accurate tax return. It's a futile gesture that seems to have been adopted as the "norm."

[skyhuck]

OK, granted, perhaps not great examples to illustrate the point, perhaps if I'd said "do you ask your plumber, sparky, builder, mechanic etc etc for their UTR to prove they pay their tax..."

 

It might have illustrated (what I feel) is the pointlessness and inadequacy of recording a UTR as some form of indication that somebody providing a service to you is also doing an accurate tax return. It's a futile gesture that seems to have been adopted as the "norm."

 

I think with your UTR the main contractor take the tax from the money they are giving you and it gets logged against that number, at year end that money goes towards paying your tax bill.

 

This is all about sub-contractors.

[bella wood]

Skyhuck thats seems to be the way its working with me,,

 

So your saying im being classed as sub contractor in hmrc's eyes ??

 

 

If so makes a little more sence now

[skyhuck]

Skyhuck thats seems to be the way its working with me,,

 

So your saying im being classed as sub contractor in hmrc's eyes ??

 

 

If so makes a little more sence now

 

Yes, as I understand it this only come into play when you are not working directly for the client.

[bella wood]

In that case then i'd say it's just the start,, lot's of people doing similar to me and more hassle's to come for them ,

Contractor i'm working for say's it been a big hassle gettng everthing sorted,,

[Inoff the Red]

Skyhuck thats seems to be the way its working with me,,

 

So your saying im being classed as sub contractor in hmrc's eyes ??

 

 

 

Have you registered as a CIS sub contractor with HMRC? Contractors are compelled to verify the status of any subbies used. If you are not registered as a CIS subbie then the contractor is likely to be deducting 30% instead of the standard 20% deduction.

 

If CIS deductions are being made from payments made to you, the contractor is obliged to give you a statement showing the tax deducted.

 

I have seen some unscrupulous contractors making deductions but failing to pay the tax over to HMRC which causes a real **** fight when the sub contractor tries to claim for the tax (especially if the work done wasn't really caught by CIS regs).

[Hodge]

Have you registered as a CIS sub contractor with HMRC? Contractors are compelled to verify the status of any subbies used. If you are not registered as a CIS subbie then the contractor is likely to be deducting 30% instead of the standard 20% deduction.

 

 

 

If CIS deductions are being made from payments made to you, the contractor is obliged to give you a statement showing the tax deducted.

 

 

 

I have seen some unscrupulous contractors making deductions but failing to pay the tax over to HMRC which causes a real **** fight when the sub contractor tries to claim for the tax (especially if the work done wasn't really caught by CIS regs).

 

 

Isn't cis for the construction industry? My accountant said it would not cover a tree surgery company unless working on construction sites??

[Al Cormack]

Isn't cis for the construction industry? My accountant said it would not cover a tree surgery company unless working on construction sites??

 

 

That's my understanding as well. Also only if you are felling trees within the footprint of a new build or extension. Outside of that it falls into landscaping.

The few times a builder has tried keeping the tax from me I explain they can't and why and then they pay up.

[Inoff the Red]

Isn't cis for the construction industry? My accountant said it would not cover a tree surgery company unless working on construction sites??

 

Absolutely correct, but there was a comment above that suggested that someone was unsure whether they were being treated as a sub contractor and deductions were being made. I was trying to establish whether it was under CIS for construction related work or whether the rules were being misapplied / it was a try on.