What to pay

[Hodge]

After reading many threads on here and having a chat with my accountant it looks like I may have to employ someone again. I always said never again but it looks like I won't have a choice, so, how much is the going rate for a 28 year old with 30/31, fair bit of experience, works hard and can be left unsupervised? Currently he is self employed on £70 a day but provides no tools. There have been issues that have come to light over this so that's why I am having to go down this route.

 

 

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[Johny Walker]

After reading many threads on here and having a chat with my accountant it looks like I may have to employ someone again. I always said never again but it looks like I won't have a choice, so, how much is the going rate for a 28 year old with 30/31, fair bit of experience, works hard and can be left unsupervised? Currently he is self employed on £70 a day but provides no tools. There have been issues that have come to light over this so that's why I am having to go down this route.

 

 

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is he with you 5,days a wk

[Hodge]

That's the problem mate, I don't want to guarantee 5 days a week, I only can guarantee say 3 days a week, due to child care etc I can only operate 8-4.

 

 

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[Paul Jenks]

You should spend some time working out hours and costs. There is no reason why you cannot employ someone part time and they spend the rest of the time working either employed or subcontracting for someone else.

Employing is always tricky as, as you have alluded, guaranteeing the work can be a challenge.

I have always worked hard to ensure there is enough work to keep the business, and those working within it, busy and usefully employed. This creates its own challenges. The ebbs and flows of workload become larger and if you want to serve your clients you have to work harder or employ more to commit to the work. Then you have to work to ensure your pipeline to feed the business.

Some see this as a vicious circle. This is, however, part of business growth, and should be embraced.

You'll have to work out holidays, NI and employees insurance, contract, PPE etc see how this is affordable within the current budget forecast and cashflow spreadsheet and work with it.

Work with the chap you want to employ too. Involve him in some of the discussions so he knows your challenges.

If he sees this as a weakness in you and tries to manipulate the situation he is not the right person for you.

If he understands and wants to help, and be rewarded without being manipulated himself owing to his care for your situation, he may be the right person.

[kentjames]

Can you do a Zero hours contract, set price per day? Or minimum days = 3 with extra days.

 

If the work is guaranteed now and wasn't before then he would be quids in but its getting them to see it that way!

 

Remember though it works both ways, you may be paying him X but if he earns you Y then its worth your while?

 

Failing that I would set a salary of 12k before tax or £47.43 per day, assuming full time contract of 253 working days (based on 2014).

 

Run some figures, business plans and spreadsheets with a base figure.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

After reading many threads on here and having a chat with my accountant it looks like I may have to employ someone again. I always said never again but it looks like I won't have a choice, so, how much is the going rate for a 28 year old with 30/31, fair bit of experience, works hard and can be left unsupervised? Currently he is self employed on £70 a day but provides no tools. There have been issues that have come to light over this so that's why I am having to go down this route.

 

 

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Might be a long shot and not sure how best to implement it, but how about an upfront payment or credit voucher to be spent on PPE/tools (which could perhaps be returned/stored at your yard overnight) offset at maybe £100/month off the pay rates. Once repaid, transfer custody of kit to your man and call it his kit and keep him at the self employed status?? Just a thought, not sure if it would work in reality? Or, your man gets a loan (either from the bank or maybe from yourself?) buys his own kit and shows some commitment / determination to work for you?

 

Like I say, may not be viable depending on specific circumstances but might be worth a thought??

[Paul Jenks]

I can understand the business case for a zero hours contract. I do personally think they are an awful concept in general business.

There are limited situations where they can be used positively and, as is usually the way, they have been hi-jacked by companies to allow hiring and firing in another guise.

The skill of the business owner/entrepreneur is his or her ability to find work and get it done. This usually leads to more work than one person can reasonably handle and hence employment results. (I doubt this next bit applies to you Hodge so please don't take it the wrong way). If a business has so little faith in their ability to either deliver more work for their people or their people to be able to deliver it, people should choose to work elsewhere.

Either commit to someone by employing them permanently, (part or full time) or use them as a sub-contractor as and when. The zero hours concept is a bastardized construct to allow employers to get around tax and use people for their earning potential[like plant] rather than working to grow them as human beings within a developing and caring organisation.

[kentjames]

Failing that I would set a salary of 12k before tax or £47.43 per day, assuming full time contract of 253 working days (based on 2014).

 

 

Actually you would need to pay him at least £50.48 per day to be within minimum wage for that age bracket.

 

Source: https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

 

So thats approx. £12771.00 per annum as a full time contract.

[skyhuck]

I can understand the business case for a zero hours contract. I do personally think they are an awful concept in general business.

There are limited situations where they can be used positively and, as is usually the way, they have been hi-jacked by companies to allow hiring and firing in another guise.

The skill of the business owner/entrepreneur is his or her ability to find work and get it done. This usually leads to more work than one person can reasonably handle and hence employment results. (I doubt this next bit applies to you Hodge so please don't take it the wrong way). If a business has so little faith in their ability to either deliver more work for their people or their people to be able to deliver it, people should choose to work elsewhere.

Either commit to someone by employing them permanently, (part or full time) or use them as a sub-contractor as and when. The zero hours concept is a bastardized construct to allow employers to get around tax and use people for their earning potential[like plant] rather than working to grow them as human beings within a developing and caring organisation.

 

Rubbish!!!

 

Many chose to run their own business because it gives them the freedom to work as and when they wish, many employees are also happy to have the same flexibility and are more than happy to have a zero hours contract.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Rubbish!!!

 

 

 

Many chose to run their own business because it gives them the freedom to work as and when they wish, many employees are also happy to have the same flexibility and are more than happy to have a zero hours contract.

 

 

Yeah, but the ZHC is the current niche demon concept of western capitalist gang masters!

 

Never mind that it actually provides exactly the flexibility and convenience that many seek and enjoy in achieving an effective work / life balance.