Chainsaw that is a Bandsaw!

[john the saw]

Darn, I did think of you....was hoping you could sort it out Rob!

Do they have to be CE marked?

 

I think a grand is at the upper price range for what it can do; but then again, it does have more moving parts compared to an Alaskan mill.

In theory it could pay for itself pretty quick.

 

The RipSaw is exactly the thing I was trying to explain to the guy who's selling the circular saw bench (SilverClaw)... I think there's a huge market for something like this in the UK. Proof is in how popular the Alaskan mill has been.....

Hi steve,

I think that it's me who has not explained things properly.

Firstly there are massive liability issues with the sale and use of non-CE marked product - have you come across any no-win no-fee lawyer ads recently? Any insurances would be automatically voided. I have seen machines like this snag and get out of control, and bandsaws snap and it ain't pretty. There is a reason why we have spent 10's of thousands of pounds on CE safety compliance - and it's not just because we have to.

Next, the Transformer has far greater capability for processing lumber within the size restrictions. How do you get out of the round with a machine like this? How do you sharpen a fence post? How do you make shiplap? How do you cut 45 degrees? How do you crosscut? etc etc. The Transformer would complete a cut length like that in about 15 seconds.

Even big strong boys like you guys would know all about it after having swung around and pushed a machine like that all day. A 12 year old girl could rip with the Transformer all day and would still be raring to play netball in the evening.

You can't compare like-for-like as there is no other machine in the world like the Transformer - that's why a new BS-EN is being written around it. What you can do is stop comparing like for not-like.

Sorry about the vids delay - they will be posted by the end of next week.

All the best

john - silverclaw.

[SteveA]

Hi steve,

I think that it's me who has not explained things properly.

Firstly there are massive liability issues with the sale and use of non-CE marked product - have you come across any no-win no-fee lawyer ads recently? Any insurances would be automatically voided. I have seen machines like this snag and get out of control, and bandsaws snap and it ain't pretty. There is a reason why we have spent 10's of thousands of pounds on CE safety compliance - and it's not just because we have to.

Next, the Transformer has far greater capability for processing lumber within the size restrictions. How do you get out of the round with a machine like this? How do you sharpen a fence post? How do you make shiplap? How do you cut 45 degrees? How do you crosscut? etc etc. The Transformer would complete a cut length like that in about 15 seconds.

Even big strong boys like you guys would know all about it after having swung around and pushed a machine like that all day. A 12 year old girl could rip with the Transformer all day and would still be raring to play netball in the evening.

You can't compare like-for-like as there is no other machine in the world like the Transformer - that's why a new BS-EN is being written around it. What you can do is stop comparing like for not-like.

Sorry about the vids delay - they will be posted by the end of next week.

All the best

john - silverclaw.

 

Thanks John, fair point on the CE stuff and H&S/ insurance liabilities ; but I would like to add that I've not read of any RipSaw injuries on other user forums, and it appears to have good guards.

 

I think you read me wrong.... I'm not trying to compare the RipSaw with your Transformer saw; I was trying to highlight that there is a gap in the UK market for a highly portable small bandsaw that one person can carry into the woods, that doesn't rely on a bench (like the RipSaw).

 

Looking forwards to seeing your videos. Cheers, Steve

[john the saw]

Thanks John, fair point on the CE stuff and H&S/ insurance liabilities ; but I would like to add that I've not read of any RipSaw injuries on other user forums, and it appears to have good guards.

 

I think you read me wrong.... I'm not trying to compare the RipSaw with your Transformer saw; I was trying to highlight that there is a gap in the UK market for a highly portable small bandsaw that one person can carry into the woods, that doesn't rely on a bench (like the RipSaw).

 

Looking forwards to seeing your videos. Cheers, Steve

 

No worries steve, i just got a bit concerned with people talking about importing non-compliant products. Someone could end up without a leg to stand on - legally as well as possibly literally

Also it would be illegal for a non-compliant machine to be sold within the eu irrespective. Having said that, i agree that a little machine like that would be handy for some people, even with the limited capability - although the Transformer gives you so much more. There would however be reasons why CE certification had not been granted which may not be immediately obvious.

I will PM you when the vids are up and you can at last see what i have been wittering on about.

All the best.

john - silverclaw

[openspaceman]

There would however be reasons why CE certification had not been granted which may not be immediately obvious.

I will PM you when the vids are up and you can at last see what i have been wittering on about.

All the best.

john - silverclaw

 

As I understand it if you can prove the device complies with the current regulations, which is done by composing a technical file, a person wishing to market the device can sign a declaration of conformity (which should not be done lightly) and then CE mark the device.

[Big J]

My only concern with a portable chainsaw driven band sawmill is one that I'm sure that Alec can answer. With static mills, any slight deviation on the alignment results in a wobbly cut. Given that a portable unit like this doesn't have a proper set of rails to run on, do the inevitable minor variations from flat mean a wobbly cut?

[bella wood]

Can anyone remember if the logosol bandsaw (the one that fits onto the m7 chainsaw mill )used to be sold as a chainsaw fitment or was that the log home moulder ,,

[agg221]

My only concern with a portable chainsaw driven band sawmill is one that I'm sure that Alec can answer. With static mills, any slight deviation on the alignment results in a wobbly cut. Given that a portable unit like this doesn't have a proper set of rails to run on, do the inevitable minor variations from flat mean a wobbly cut?

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

No, it doesn't produce a wobbly cut with a sharp band. It does climb and dive when the band goes off though but you can feel when you should stop. I have also been trying out a new type of band on it, which is much more resilient. It's a cobalt steel and it doesn't cut as fast but it does hold its edge really well, and even copes with the odd nail.

 

It is also temperamental - today it was in a bad mood. I will need to work out tomorrow whether it's the mill or the timber - I suspect the latter as even the Alaskan was binding up in the cut. It was some horrible oak which just kept grabbing everything unless you banged in fresh wedges every 18" or so. Tedious.

 

The Ripsaw is not a competitor for the Silverclaw. The Silverclaw would seem to be an option for people with log handling equipment, space to set up a fixed operation (or some way of addressing the security issue if leaving it on sites when moving it between them), milling fairly large quantities in a semi-production environment. I would imagine it's a fairly good bet if you have a small softwood woodland and somewhere non-residential with suitable industrial planning permission, such as a firewood processing yard for example.

 

The Ripsaw is fully portable (one handed if you must) and can fit through any gap you can sidle through sideways. It has a very good rail system, which I use with the Alaskan too. It is basically a good partner to an Alaskan as it is much quicker with a thinner kerf (when it isn't sulking). General procedure is to quarter with the Alaskan and then mill, although on smaller logs, up to about 20", I usually just go straight in with the Ripsaw.

 

With regard to the specific questions - getting out of the round is easy, on-site where it lies, ie no extraction needed. It runs down a rail. It won't crosscut or sharpen fenceposts - it's designed for milling, but it will make feather-edge cladding quite well - I made enough to cover my 2-storey extension with it.

 

The main reason it hasn't been CE marked is because nobody has tried. The seller is in the deep south of the US (think Gone With The Wind plantation owner) and really can't be bothered to supply outside the US. He also doesn't do email. It took me over 3months to talk him in to sending me some rails, which basically involved my wife charming him over the phone by flirting in her terribly English accent! It may or may not comply but nothing stands out as an issue.

 

Some of John the Saw's comments are interesting - I would like further details, for example of when a machine of this nature has snagged and got out of control in his experience? I am interested because I can't see how it could do it, so it would be good to be aware of the situation to look out for - my experience to date has been that if the blade pinches it just stops (or jumps the bandwheels and stops). If you let go, like any chainsaw, it stops on the clutch. Bands do snap, usually at the weld - they are fully contained by the guards.

 

Openspaceman - yes you are correct on the 'declaration of conformity'. In my professional capacity we sometimes need to use unique equipment which is not manufactured in Europe - often this is bespoke. We do not have a problem and can either go this route or get it CE marked if required (it's easier for most people to understand if you have the CE marking rather than the declaration).

 

Alec

Edited March 1, 2014 by agg221

[john the saw]

Hi Jonathan,

 

No, it doesn't produce a wobbly cut with a sharp band. It does climb and dive when the band goes off though but you can feel when you should stop. I have also been trying out a new type of band on it, which is much more resilient. It's a cobalt steel and it doesn't cut as fast but it does hold its edge really well, and even copes with the odd nail.

 

It is also temperamental - today it was in a bad mood. I will need to work out tomorrow whether it's the mill or the timber - I suspect the latter as even the Alaskan was binding up in the cut. It was some horrible oak which just kept grabbing everything unless you banged in fresh wedges every 18" or so. Tedious.

 

The Ripsaw is not a competitor for the Silverclaw. The Silverclaw would seem to be an option for people with log handling equipment, space to set up a fixed operation (or some way of addressing the security issue if leaving it on sites when moving it between them), milling fairly large quantities in a semi-production environment. I would imagine it's a fairly good bet if you have a small softwood woodland and somewhere non-residential with suitable industrial planning permission, such as a firewood processing yard for example.

 

The Ripsaw is fully portable (one handed if you must) and can fit through any gap you can sidle through sideways. It has a very good rail system, which I use with the Alaskan too. It is basically a good partner to an Alaskan as it is much quicker with a thinner kerf (when it isn't sulking). General procedure is to quarter with the Alaskan and then mill, although on smaller logs, up to about 20", I usually just go straight in with the Ripsaw.

 

With regard to the specific questions - getting out of the round is easy, on-site where it lies, ie no extraction needed. It runs down a rail. It won't crosscut or sharpen fenceposts - it's designed for milling, but it will make feather-edge cladding quite well - I made enough to cover my 2-storey extension with it.

 

The main reason it hasn't been CE marked is because nobody has tried. The seller is in the deep south of the US (think Gone With The Wind plantation owner) and really can't be bothered to supply outside the US. He also doesn't do email. It took me over 3months to talk him in to sending me some rails, which basically involved my wife charming him over the phone by flirting in her terribly English accent! It may or may not comply but nothing stands out as an issue.

 

Some of John the Saw's comments are interesting - I would like further details, for example of when a machine of this nature has snagged and got out of control in his experience? I am interested because I can't see how it could do it, so it would be good to be aware of the situation to look out for - my experience to date has been that if the blade pinches it just stops (or jumps the bandwheels and stops). If you let go, like any chainsaw, it stops on the clutch. Bands do snap, usually at the weld - they are fully contained by the guards.

 

Openspaceman - yes you are correct on the 'declaration of conformity'. In my professional capacity we sometimes need to use unique equipment which is not manufactured in Europe - often this is bespoke. We do not have a problem and can either go this route or get it CE marked if required (it's easier for most people to understand if you have the CE marking rather than the declaration).

 

Alec

Hi alec - great post!

I want everyone to understand that i am not slagging-off these machines. I was only objecting to the comparison because the Transformer can do so much more within it's capacity limitations. I agree with steve that these are handy pieces of kit and thank you for getting the drift of the intended use of the Transformer and pointing it out. Most of the confusion is my fault for not posting vids earlier - now scheduled for next week. Our target user is really a guy with a bit of wooded land who want to make a few quid by processing small lumber. Most of you guys seem to process lumber far larger than the Transformer is capable of handling but i still think that you would derive benefit from our machine - it's a lot of kit for the money.

I suppose that i am a bit tetchy when it comes to remarks on CE marking. It has cost me a small fortune but i believe in it wholeheartedly. Self-certification is worthless in my opinion and when it comes to the diligence of the government-licenced independent 3rd party inspectorate that we employ, fine-toothed combs just ain't in it. If you take the riving knife as an example, standards specify in detail everything from the tensile strength of steel used, to thickness relative to the blade and kerf width, height relative to blade diameter, side and end-on loading and distortion tests, space of continuous running gap between the knife and the blade kerf etc etc. I have been determined to not just comply with regs, but to exceed them and produce a machine that is as-far-as-possible foolproof with respect to operator safety.

Per your request for details of what i saw, a husband and wife team were demonstrating a self-certified tracked bandsaw planker and hadn't securely chocked the end of the lumber. At the end of the cut the blade caught and swung the lumber sideways smashing the woman in the hip. The blade twisted and shattered and a piece flew out like a bullet but thankfully hit no-one. Operator error i agree but it's what i saw.

I remain grateful for all of the feedback from you guys and hope that you continue to look kindly on our efforts to provide a safe, british-made capable intermediate machine, even if it's not for you.

All the best

john - silverclaw

[agg221]

Hi alec - great post!

Most of you guys seem to process lumber far larger than the Transformer is capable of handling but i still think that you would derive benefit from our machine - it's a lot of kit for the money.

 

Per your request for details of what i saw, a husband and wife team were demonstrating a self-certified tracked bandsaw planker and hadn't securely chocked the end of the lumber. At the end of the cut the blade caught and swung the lumber sideways smashing the woman in the hip. The blade twisted and shattered and a piece flew out like a bullet but thankfully hit no-one. Operator error i agree but it's what i saw.

 

Thanks John - on your points, yes, most timber discussed on here is over the 12" mark. 12" pretty much corresponds to the smaller end of commercial softwood - most hardwoods at 12" would be all sapwood and really not worth the effort.

 

Thankyou for the information on the failure. That particular issue wouldn't occur with the Ripsaw - there just isn't the torque. It might swing a light board but it would still be trapped in the frame.

 

Regarding yesterday's nightmare - I had the mill out again today, sharpened up the band and milled some cherry and poplar. No problems at all, so it must be down to yesterday's particular tree. Worst thing to mill I have ever encountered!

 

Alec