Survey of firewood price

[Logsnstuff]

You can decide that for yourself. The results from this thread are here http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/firewood-forum/70352-firewood-price-survey-results.html I would say yes you are too cheap but I don't know your area. Have you or have you nearly sold out this winter is quite an easy guide.

 

selling out this winter in this area anyway isn't much of a guide I've been in 4 other merchants yards everyone is sitting with a lot of logs.

[Big J]

Bear with me on this one, I want to float my opinion on this.

 

I think that like many things in this country, firewood is largely over priced. I'm not saying that people are overcharging according to the market rate, only that the price of firewood has been going up and up beyond what is affordable for anyone who wants to use it as a primary fuel source.

 

I think in some respects, the government and their subsidising of biomass must carry some of the blame as it's pushed the price of the raw material up. However, the unit profit on a cubic metre of firewood seems to be too high, from my point of view.

 

I haven't really ever made a concerted effort to sell firewood until now. January and February were quiet, so amongst other things, I split 70 odd cubic metres of firewood (poplar mainly). The main thing that took time was building the crates, but I could have bought IBC crates. My raw material costs for a cubic metre are £10 (£25 a tonne delivered in), fuel costs about £2 and maybe a pound for chain costs and machine wear and tear (I have a screw splitter that has minimal maintenance needs).

 

So total cost of £13 a cubic metre, crates are popped in a corner of the yard, takes about 30-45 minutes a cubic metre depending on how knotty it is, I sell it for £55. Gross profit £42, time taken per cubic metre including delivery, about 1.5 hours.

 

How are people coming up with figures like £100 a cubic metre? Being larger producers, you'll have quicker splitters than me (I can reliably do 12 cubic metres a day by myself with my screw splitter), better space for drying (mine will be covered by tarps and outside mainly, though I can store up to about 40 cube in a barn) and better delivery options (crates will be placed on trailer and unloaded by hand when delivered).

 

Even at £60 a tonne delivered in, that's only £30 a cube split, fuel and machine wear costs £5, 30 minutes to split - where does £100 come from?

 

I've found this to be the case with sawn timber as well, but timber is too expensive in this country to ever compete with imported products. It shouldn't be, which is why I've reduced my prices a bit on sawn timber. I think it's much better to turn over more stock than sit of a pile of timber. If you look to the continent (appreciating that they have more forest and better timber management), firewood prices are half what they are here for an often superior product. The same applies with sawn timber.

 

I heat my house with firewood, supplemented by a smidge of oil. Even if I bought all my firewood, it would be just as economical to use as oil. How many people here are selling firewood to people that use it as their primary heat source? Surely it's better to sell 25 cube at £70 a cubic metre to someone with a Rayburn, than 5 cube at £100 to someone with a daft little Morso?

 

I reckon that there needs to be a shift from the opinion that woodfuel is a luxury heating option to the situation they have in many parts of Europe where it's the obvious and first choice. This can only happen if we don't charge so much for it.

[Woodworks]

Interesting read Jonathan.

 

One comment for the time being.

Energy per pound charging £70 for a cube of pop V £95 for a cube of ash beech mix would be pretty similar.

[Big J]

Interesting read Jonathan.

 

One comment for the time being.

Energy per pound charging £70 for a cube of pop V £95 for a cube of ash beech mix would be pretty similar.

 

Glad you aren't coming with the lynch mob!

 

Poplar goes out at £55. £70 is the figure I intend to do Oak/Beech/Ash/Sycamore at.

[SamWhiting12]

With your £60 a ton delivered in, I wouldn't say you get 2 cbm from it, 1.5 cbm if your lucky.

 

In that case your paying £40per cbm. You reckon about 2hr15mins to process a cbm which at minimum wage would cost around £15. So to process your product costs £55 per cbm.

 

Then take into account your overheads, vehicle insurance, yard rates/rent, yard and equipment insurance, along with all the maintenance for vehicles and equipment. It all adds up in the end.

 

This is why firewood is good as a side business because if all your above overheads are needed for another part of your business then you can be making £45 profit.

[Big J]

With your £60 a ton delivered in, I wouldn't say you get 2 cbm from it, 1.5 cbm if your lucky.

 

In that case your paying £40per cbm. You reckon about 2hr15mins to process a cbm which at minimum wage would cost around £15. So to process your product costs £55 per cbm.

 

Then take into account your overheads, vehicle insurance, yard rates/rent, yard and equipment insurance, along with all the maintenance for vehicles and equipment. It all adds up in the end.

 

This is why firewood is good as a side business because if all your above overheads are needed for another part of your business then you can be making £45 profit.

 

£60 a tonne delivered in is worst case scenario. Around here cordwood is about £40-42 a tonne and delivery would cost me £7-8, so £50 delivered in. Unless it was Beech, I would expect to always get at least 2CM per tonne. The poplar is very wet when fresh, and I consistently get 2.5CM per tonne.

 

I do agree though, firewood works well as a side business (which it very much is for me), but the larger producers should be able to take advantage of the economies of scale. What sort of production rates do folk see with the larger processors?

 

Additionally, and I think that this is a crucial thing - the customers need to be educated. They need to understand that any species makes good firewood provided it is dry. Infact a mixed species batch is nearly always superior due to the different burning characteristics of different tree species. With softwood cord delivered in at £35 a tonne, it would work out more economically too, both for producer and user.

 

Jonathan

[Log Man Jon]

£60/ cube. Free delivery London

[SamWhiting12]

£60 a tonne delivered in is worst case scenario. Around here cordwood is about £40-42 a tonne and delivery would cost me £7-8, so £50 delivered in. Unless it was Beech, I would expect to always get at least 2CM per tonne. The poplar is very wet when fresh, and I consistently get 2.5CM per tonne.

 

I do agree though, firewood works well as a side business (which it very much is for me), but the larger producers should be able to take advantage of the economies of scale. What sort of production rates do folk see with the larger processors?

 

Additionally, and I think that this is a crucial thing - the customers need to be educated. They need to understand that any species makes good firewood provided it is dry. Infact a mixed species batch is nearly always superior due to the different burning characteristics of different tree species. With softwood cord delivered in at £35 a tonne, it would work out more economically too, both for producer and user.

 

Jonathan

 

As regards to your first question why is firewood the price it is at the minute, what I would ask you is if the money is ok to make a living why haven't you gone into firewood all guns blazing selling at your price and start producing 800 tons a year?

 

Im not being funny with you it just I believe there is a lot more than meets the eye when it comes to large scale firewood.

 

And educating customers I agree with you, is key. Wood burns whatever it is as long as the wood is well seasoned. My educating has been good with my current customer base as most of them will buy 50/50 mixes rather than just hardwood, and when stocks are low, they are more than willing to buy just softwood.

 

Even Certainly Woods have now started saying the softwood is a good alternative to hardwood firewood, might not be long till they are selling softwoods too.

[Big J]

Not interested in doing firewood on a large scale - it's not my area of expertise, sawmilling pays better, I'm not set up for it in terms of machinery and I find firewood tedious after a while!

 

I recall being at a large sawmill in Germany on a tour. They were selling good sized kiln dried (8%) beech off cuts for about 55 euros a cubic metre. It can be done economically on a large scale.

 

I just feel that in order to get away from the famously nit picky and usually misinformed customers, we need to offer firewood as an affordable alternative to fossil fuels. This is going to require more than just action on the part of the firewood processors, but I reckon it's the right thing to do. Go to rural areas on the continent and firewood is the first choice fuel. That is not just because it's more abundant.

 

Jonathan

[Logsnstuff]

Bear with me on this one, I want to float my opinion on this.

 

I think that like many things in this country, firewood is largely over priced. I'm not saying that people are overcharging according to the market rate, only that the price of firewood has been going up and up beyond what is affordable for anyone who wants to use it as a primary fuel source.

 

I think in some respects, the government and their subsidising of biomass must carry some of the blame as it's pushed the price of the raw material up. However, the unit profit on a cubic metre of firewood seems to be too high, from my point of view.

 

I haven't really ever made a concerted effort to sell firewood until now. January and February were quiet, so amongst other things, I split 70 odd cubic metres of firewood (poplar mainly). The main thing that took time was building the crates, but I could have bought IBC crates. My raw material costs for a cubic metre are £10 (£25 a tonne delivered in), fuel costs about £2 and maybe a pound for chain costs and machine wear and tear (I have a screw splitter that has minimal maintenance needs).

 

So total cost of £13 a cubic metre, crates are popped in a corner of the yard, takes about 30-45 minutes a cubic metre depending on how knotty it is, I sell it for £55. Gross profit £42, time taken per cubic metre including delivery, about 1.5 hours.

 

How are people coming up with figures like £100 a cubic metre? Being larger producers, you'll have quicker splitters than me (I can reliably do 12 cubic metres a day by myself with my screw splitter), better space for drying (mine will be covered by tarps and outside mainly, though I can store up to about 40 cube in a barn) and better delivery options (crates will be placed on trailer and unloaded by hand when delivered).

 

Even at £60 a tonne delivered in, that's only £30 a cube split, fuel and machine wear costs £5, 30 minutes to split - where does £100 come from?

 

I've found this to be the case with sawn timber as well, but timber is too expensive in this country to ever compete with imported products. It shouldn't be, which is why I've reduced my prices a bit on sawn timber. I think it's much better to turn over more stock than sit of a pile of timber. If you look to the continent (appreciating that they have more forest and better timber management), firewood prices are half what they are here for an often superior product. The same applies with sawn timber.

 

I heat my house with firewood, supplemented by a smidge of oil. Even if I bought all my firewood, it would be just as economical to use as oil. How many people here are selling firewood to people that use it as their primary heat source? Surely it's better to sell 25 cube at £70 a cubic metre to someone with a Rayburn, than 5 cube at £100 to someone with a daft little Morso?

 

I reckon that there needs to be a shift from the opinion that woodfuel is a luxury heating option to the situation they have in many parts of Europe where it's the obvious and first choice. This can only happen if we don't charge so much for it.

 

I've paid upto £55 a tonne delivered in £5.50 a bag to store it, the 18 months the money is tied up to season the wood (thats not free), wear and tear depreciation, delivery costs at 14 mpg, insurance,vat, yard rent just to start with of the top of my head I'm sure theres more costs I've forgotten oh ye and the dirty word some profit.