Show us your Arb Diggers please.

[LGP Eddie]

6 hours ago, donnk said:

i had ex demo engcon with a grab fitted on my kx030-4 and you wont get change from £10k

 

Great bit of kit but it is bloody heavy so you will need weight on the back.

 

Also bear in mind if you do trenching the narrowest you will be able to dig is 600mm as the tilt is 580 wide.

 

The engcon buckets are the best ive used as well, they have slightly difference geometry than stricklands ones. You get more in with each scoop and its easier to dig with them if you know what i mean.

 

In near worcester if you want to come and have a play on it.

 

 

Richy B has a 2.7 tonne machine so he’s able to go with an Engcon Ec02 on s30 type pickup with a top hitch so he can drop the unit off and easily go down to a 9” Bucket if so required.

Its always preferable and forget what any dealers tell you to run a Tilty right at the top end of its weight class to ensure the machine is more than up to handling it and you get less ‘dulling’ of the machine functions.

If you don’t get what I mean by ‘dulling’ just imagine a machine with a full bucket or not, totally different feel to them.

Dealers want them at the other end of the weight class to help protect them a little from the forces of larger machines. Trust me they can run right to the top of their weight class and a touch over no issues.

The Kubota here is a classic example of a carrier machine handling a unit that really needs an extra tonne of carrier machine to get the best from it.

Combine the integral gripper weight and the fact it’ll almost certainly be on s40 hitch which really is 4 tonne and above territory, and you start and see why an extra slice of counterweight is required.

Donnk isn’t alone, my good friend Sean Gratton took the Ec204 in full spec with top hitch and s40 on his 3 tonne Komatsu and has ended up putting a slice of counterweight on it to settle it down.

It really is a total and potentially expensive minefield out there!

Remember the ‘S’ type hitches are denoted by pin size, 30mm, 40mm, 50mm etc, you don’t have to match your carrier machines Bucket pin size to this!

For example a Kx080 Kubota which has 60mm Bucket pins as standard will run a S45 hitch which is obviously 45mm pins.

 

Do your Homework, ask existing users they are generally happy to share knowledge and regardless of your brand preference to purchase, get yourself off to one of Engcon’s brilliant dig days they’ve been running. You can see many setups, try them and speak to the actual owners.

 

 

Eddie.

Edited August 25, 2018 by LGP Eddie

[monkeybusiness]

If you are looking at going down the tilt rotator route you could do a lot worse than reading through this huge thread of Eddie's from the now largely defunct CEForum - there is an incredible amount of info in there that may help inform decisions.  

http://ceforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=357&highlight=Wideboy

He has been massively pioneering with his various set ups and done a lot of research (and invested heavily in his ideas) along the way, and really is the person to listen to with regards different specs and future-proofing your investment. 

It is very difficult to get your head around the multitude of setup options available at the beginning, but one thing I would definitely recommend if buying a new machine is to spec it with s-type buckets and hitch (even though UK machinery dealers might look at you with a glazed look of incomprehension when you mention these). They are a much better design than the traditional UK quickhitches, and make a future transition to a tilty much more straightforward. 

[Matthew Storrs]

On 24/08/2018 at 10:59, richy_B said:

Ball park - What would a full engcon tilt rotator set up cost on a 2.7t machine (two aux hydraulics)? 

 

Unit, standard bucket, controls and set up? Considering for this winter. 

 

 

Have a good think abOut how much of your work would need a tilt rotate. 

I say this as I recently purchased a Helac Powertilt hitch for my new Takeuchi and I got so say it suits my work very well. There are times when a rotate would be nice too- but not really enough times to justify £10k plus. The Powertilt is about £3500. Doesn’t weigh much more than a standard quick hitch and is very nice compact design and very well built. It gives you a full 180 degree tilt so you can stand the bucket on its side . I find it great for cambering footpaths/grading/tidy ditching etc and can be used with regular buckets. 

 

just a thought like!

[LGP Eddie]

24 minutes ago, Matthew Storrs said:

Have a good think abOut how much of your work would need a tilt rotate. 

I say this as I recently purchased a Helac Powertilt hitch for my new Takeuchi and I got so say it suits my work very well. There are times when a rotate would be nice too- but not really enough times to justify £10k plus. The Powertilt is about £3500. Doesn’t weigh much more than a standard quick hitch and is very nice compact design and very well built. It gives you a full 180 degree tilt so you can stand the bucket on its side . I find it great for cambering footpaths/grading/tidy ditching etc and can be used with regular buckets. 

 

just a thought like!

It’s a valid point, but the nature of the work leads to a Grab and then it needs to be a fixed Grab to get the best from it and ideally worm drive too?

The potential for a Tiltrotator to be the worm drive rotator with the added bonus of tilt thrown in, just add the Grab, can’t be ignored by many on here.

 

I was first using a Powertilt in 1996, they are fantastic units and you would think many more would utilise them.

Come to think of it, you’d think as just about every machine is piped you’d see many more Tilt buckets about?

 

 

Eddie.

[donnk]

3 hours ago, LGP Eddie said:

Richy B has a 2.7 tonne machine so he’s able to go with an Engcon Ec02 on s30 type pickup with a top hitch so he can drop the unit off and easily go down to a 9” Bucket if so required.

Its always preferable and forget what any dealers tell you to run a Tilty right at the top end of its weight class to ensure the machine is more than up to handling it and you get less ‘dulling’ of the machine functions.

If you don’t get what I mean by ‘dulling’ just imagine a machine with a full bucket or not, totally different feel to them.

Dealers want them at the other end of the weight class to help protect them a little from the forces of larger machines. Trust me they can run right to the top of their weight class and a touch over no issues.

The Kubota here is a classic example of a carrier machine handling a unit that really needs an extra tonne of carrier machine to get the best from it.

Combine the integral gripper weight and the fact it’ll almost certainly be on s40 hitch which really is 4 tonne and above territory, and you start and see why an extra slice of counterweight is required.

Donnk isn’t alone, my good friend Sean Gratton took the Ec204 in full spec with top hitch and s40 on his 3 tonne Komatsu and has ended up putting a slice of counterweight on it to settle it down.

It really is a total and potentially expensive minefield out there!

Remember the ‘S’ type hitches are denoted by pin size, 30mm, 40mm, 50mm etc, you don’t have to match your carrier machines Bucket pin size to this!

For example a Kx080 Kubota which has 60mm Bucket pins as standard will run a S45 hitch which is obviously 45mm pins.

 

Do your Homework, ask existing users they are generally happy to share knowledge and regardless of your brand preference to purchase, get yourself off to one of Engcon’s brilliant dig days they’ve been running. You can see many setups, try them and speak to the actual owners.

 

 

Eddie.

You make a good point there eddie. Im running S40 and have the auto hitch as well running of a trigger which is bloody great time saver.

 

As the kx040 is so new I'm having trouble getting a counterweight but it will definately be less bronco with one. I've had her on a heap loading an 8 wheeler and full stretch which you need to dump into an 8 wheeler she is rocking and bucking a fair bit. You do get used to it but the H & S bloke would shit a brick if he saw it.

 

As far as trenching, I could drop the tilter unit off and put the whites hitch on but I just dig all my trenches in 600 now. If I did miles of 6" then it would be different but I dont. I also got an augertorque unit and run it off the rotate circuit for post hole/stump planing. It has just the right amount of flow, not too fast and not too slow.

 

The claw on it is too powerfull to be honest, I had some 8" stumps and it just disintegrated them. Crazy strong.

 

A word of warning though you can hit the cab if your not carefull as the tilty extends the length of the arm just enough.

[LGP Eddie]

12 hours ago, donnk said:

You make a good point there eddie. Im running S40 and have the auto hitch as well running of a trigger which is bloody great time saver.

 

As the kx040 is so new I'm having trouble getting a counterweight but it will definately be less bronco with one. I've had her on a heap loading an 8 wheeler and full stretch which you need to dump into an 8 wheeler she is rocking and bucking a fair bit. You do get used to it but the H & S bloke would shit a brick if he saw it.

 

As far as trenching, I could drop the tilter unit off and put the whites hitch on but I just dig all my trenches in 600 now. If I did miles of 6" then it would be different but I dont. I also got an augertorque unit and run it off the rotate circuit for post hole/stump planing. It has just the right amount of flow, not too fast and not too slow.

 

The claw on it is too powerfull to be honest, I had some 8" stumps and it just disintegrated them. Crazy strong.

 

A word of warning though you can hit the cab if your not carefull as the tilty extends the length of the arm just enough.

Just do the counterweight yourself it’s generally a simple process if some suitable mounting points under the machine can be located.

Shaun was very lucky with his Komatsu, some good big mounting bolts underneath already that could be simply sourced longer to retain the counterweight nicely.

Making it is as simple as propping up a sheet of thin ply under the machine that’s sitting perfectly level and marking out the shape you want with a spirit level around the back of the machine or whatever method you come up with that works for you.

Steel weights are easily calculated and you can see what clearance you have on things like the Blade Ram guard when it’s slewing.

Once you’ve got your pattern sorted get it cut at your local profilers and source the longer bolts.

Sean made a great job of his, it’s really not hard, I did the patterns for my Liebherr, it was profile cut in Wigan and fitted in Scotland by John Craig.

 

I’ve not studied it thoroughly myself but talk is of the just launched Rototilt R1 being where it’s at with these smaller machines.

I don’t know what hitches are available, but it looks configured to take a detachable gripper unit and is classified up to 3.5 tonnes carrier weight.

If that’s the case, it’s ideal as the gripper can be removed when not required or even added after the initial purchase when funds allow.

Engcon have this ability on their larger units, where users can keep adding things like the Gripper or Ec-Oil automatic hitches as you go, but not on the smaller stuff.

 

Eddie.

[donnk]

funny you should mention a DIY counterweight. I'm in the middle of having it made now, the digger has mounting holes already. I'm thinking about 300 - 350 KG does that sound about right for a 3 tonner or should I go 250-300 ?

 

My plan is for a wrap around steel 'bumper' and fill it with lead (melt and pour) so it doesnt protrude too far and as narrow enough to miss the blade and allow the service door to open.

 

Here you can see them, the black bumper is what is being replaced

 

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by donnk

[LGP Eddie]

4 minutes ago, donnk said:

funny you should mention a DIY counterweight. I'm in the middle of having it made now, the digger has mounting holes already. I'm thinking about 300 - 350 KG does that sound about right for a 3 tonner or should I go 250-300 ?

 

My plan is for a wrap around steel 'bumper' and fill it with lead (melt and pour) so it doesnt protrude too far and as narrow enough to miss the blade and allow the service door to open.

You’d normally go under on what is a full fat tail machine, but wrap around especially lead filled to keep it most compact will do the trick.

If you can get 300kg on it should transform it nicely.

If you want to leave the roof on the parish Church then guys like these will fill your counterweight for you.

https://www.midlandlead.co.uk/products/other/

 

 

Eddie.

[donnk]

thanks eddie, they not far from us as well.

[LGP Eddie]

Just checked up and the Rototilt R1 does cover from 1.5 to 3.5 tonne in its class.

For the smaller machines you can have it on S30, but for the larger carriers you can go S40 and this is where the Gripper Unit mounting is added.

The Gripper is a full retrofit setup, so can be purchased at a later date or fitted/removed as required.

Certainly a Unit to take a look at in this class.

 

Not the best image, but this is the R1 Unit in S40 hitch form with the Gripper fitted.

 

 

Eddie.