Joe Public - how do you think they see the Arb world?

[Jony thicket]

I can't agree on this Andy.

 

Mechanics (some) are professionals. Plumbers are professionals (some). You're mixing up blue collar / white collar workers.

 

In my opinion anyone that has received specific training and elevates their knowledge, skills and expertise to above that of the average person can claim to be 'a professional'. However, this doesn't guarantee that they act professionally...to BE professional is a whole new can of worms.

 

Do you consider planning consultants and landscape architects to be professionals? There are many arboriculturists operating at this level - surely they should be known as professionals amongst their peers from other sectors?

 

 

 

+1 spot on

[campanula]

Hmmmm, as a member of the general public, I have to say, some of you guys are coming across as a bit.....bitter. I dunno - I am a gardener (and obviously, have areas of overlap with arbourists, without the climbing but plenty of plant knowledge) and many of the same issues occur over and over....but why should I care what the public think. By far the worst issue for me to deal with involves fellow 'gardeners' or, more particularly, cowboys (and girls) without even the most rudimentary knowledge of their craft. BY and large, the general public are vaguely interested but often woefully misinformed...... but those dolts, with their 5 blobs of concrete, ignorant and abusive pruning and desperate plant choices (yep, 'designers', it's you I am talking about)....whose efforts have to be repaired,replaced or abandoned and started over....those are the times when I grind my teeth. Part of the problem lies in the freefloating designation of 'gardener', landscaper' or 'tree surgeon' (yes, I have seen some horrors in your industry too) which definitely affect how many of us are regarded - nothing makes me crosser than being compared to some of the floundering nitwits out there with zero knowledge (I know everyone has to start somewhere but at least read a book) but a massive sense of their own abilities.

[Pete Mctree]

Unless they need us, we don not exist, practically invisible. So it follows that, until demonstrated, our skills are minimal also

"Ah you cutdown trees" or your a "lunberjack" then is what the majority perceive & unless they know someone within the industry & even then that perception is dependent on the individual.

People seldom looks at trees - the may notice them, but never look, so how can they be expected to hold an opinion on them & the people who work with them?

[Steve Bullman]

Hmmmm, as a member of the general public, I have to say, some of you guys are coming across as a bit.....bitter. I dunno - I am a gardener (and obviously, have areas of overlap with arbourists, without the climbing but plenty of plant knowledge) and many of the same issues occur over and over....but why should I care what the public think. By far the worst issue for me to deal with involves fellow 'gardeners' or, more particularly, cowboys (and girls) without even the most rudimentary knowledge of their craft. BY and large, the general public are vaguely interested but often woefully misinformed...... but those dolts, with their 5 blobs of concrete, ignorant and abusive pruning and desperate plant choices (yep, 'designers', it's you I am talking about)....whose efforts have to be repaired,replaced or abandoned and started over....those are the times when I grind my teeth. Part of the problem lies in the freefloating designation of 'gardener', landscaper' or 'tree surgeon' (yes, I have seen some horrors in your industry too) which definitely affect how many of us are regarded - nothing makes me crosser than being compared to some of the floundering nitwits out there with zero knowledge (I know everyone has to start somewhere but at least read a book) but a massive sense of their own abilities.

 

Agree largely with this. People will notice bad tree work far easier than good tree work, and unfortunately bad tree work sticks out like a sore thumb pretty much anywhere you look. Personally i'm not really concerned with what the public think. If they have the need for a tree surgeon they will use one, and assuming that tree surgeon is me then they can decide at that point how they wish to categorize my skills. It won't affect the rate I charge them regardless

[Andy Clark]

Well we seem to be getting a broad mix of opinions, from and equally broad mix of folk. I guess like most things, it's a subjective question really - in as much that generally the answers are going to be governed by the individuals own relative experiences in dealing with Joe Public at their own relative level.

 

With regards to the "Profession/Professional/Professionalism" debate, I want to nip that in the bud with this - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional - and follow it by saying that you're all wrong AND all right. But that's a different kettle of fish. Lol.

 

I sat reading through the replies throughout last night and this morning, and started to think about why I asked the question, what answers I was expecting to see., and what would my own answer be to my own question. (Yes, I really do need to get a life!).

 

For me, relative to my own experience, the answer is not so much of how Joe Public views trees and Arb, but more a case of "why" do they/don't they view trees and arb with more importance?

 

I'm gonna stick with the example that's been given for a moment here........

 

Granted, to an individual, boshing the top off to give more light into the garden may very well be important, but will the works that they're requesting to be carried out solve the problem that they have in the first place? Yeah, of course it will....... For about a year, maybe 2. 3 at tops. But then with the reactive growth that will almost inevitably follow, their initial problem is in fact only going to get worse in the longer term.

So why, after all these millions of years of being surrounded by trees on this green and pleasant island of ours, don't Joe Public "get it"?

 

And another consideration, in view of the litigious society that we find ourselves in these days, is that why is getting more light into the garden figuring so highly on their agenda, but yet the matter of whether the tree, in the longer term, is safe, sound, likely to fail or likely to fall is not even an utterance?

 

I mean tree liability payouts are well up in the £millions these days, and the case law precedents are setting a pretty clear pathway as to how the law expects trees to be managed and maintained - but yet I bet that, proportionally, more people across the country ask for boshing the top off to let more light in, than ask for a condition survey to ascertain whether the tree is even healthy.

 

And I bet more people ask to "make sure you do a good job of clearing up" than ask to "make sure all your cuts are made in accordance to 3998".

 

I must of course add that other tree work operations are also available -

 

- boshing the top off to cut down on leaf fall

- boshing the top off to stop squirrels getting on the roof

- boshing the top off to cut down on conkers/acorns/berries etc

- boshing the top off "cos the tree is too tall and tall trees are dangerous"

and of course my own personal favourite.....

- boshing the top off "cos the tree is overgrown"

 

I'm joking of course, but I think the jist of my point is pretty clear.

 

 

 

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Edited October 25, 2013 by Andy Clark

[Andy Clark]

Oh and one other thing......

 

Arboriculture is most definitely not Rocket Science!

 

Rocket Science comes under "Physics", whereas Arboriculture comes under "Biology"

 

.

 

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[Yorkshireman]

ANDY its after five on a Friday ,,, me thinks its time to hit the work .. OFF button

[Gary Prentice]

Granted, to an individual, boshing the top off to give more light into the garden may very well be important, but will the works that they're requesting to be carried out solve the problem that they have in the first place? Yeah, of course it will....... For about a year, maybe 2. 3 at tops. But then with the reactive growth that will almost inevitably follow, their initial problem is in fact only going to get worse in the longer term.

So why, after all these millions of years of being surrounded by trees on this green and pleasant island of ours, don't Joe Public "get it"?

 

And another consideration, in view of the litigious society that we find ourselves in these days, is that why is getting more light into the garden figuring so highly on their agenda, but yet the matter of whether the tree, in the longer term, is safe, sound, likely to fail or likely to fall is not even an utterance?

 

I mean tree liability payouts are well up in the £millions these days, and the case law precedents are setting a pretty clear pathway as to how the law expects trees to be managed and maintained - but yet I bet that, proportionally, more people across the country ask for boshing the top off to let more light in, than ask for a condition survey to ascertain whether the tree is even healthy.

When the first company are sued, for damage caused by a tree they topped five years ago, the attitude of "If I don't do it, someone else will" may change

And I bet more people ask to "make sure you do a good job of clearing up" than ask to "make sure all your cuts are made in accordance to 3998".

 

I must of course add that other tree work operations are also available -

 

- boshing the top off to cut down on leaf fall

- boshing the top off to stop squirrels getting on the roof

- boshing the top off to cut down on conkers/acorns/berries etc

- boshing the top off "cos the tree is too tall and tall trees are dangerous"

and of course my own personal favourite.....

- boshing the top off "cos the tree is overgrown"

 

I'm joking of course, but I think the jist of my point is pretty clear.

 

You forgot boshing the top off because that's what the clients paying me for.

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I'm sure that 99% of the tree surgeons/arborists/climbers/arboriculturists on here use the phrase "works completed to BS3998:2010 Tree Work- Recommendations on their advertising, quotes or specifications. Can anyone tell me which paragraph includes boshing the top off because that's what the client wants

[Shane]

We are often asked if we watch Axmen and if we work like that.

You have to laugh.

 

We have been known to reply

'I never wanted to do this for a living - I always wanted to be ... a lumberjack!'

[Andy Collins]

I guess the term "professional" is taken in so many ways, and that leads to a separate issues. I do not class myself as a professional, as I said, a professional IMO is the level of doctors, solicitors, scientists and so on, the majority of us are therefore not "professionals". However, I talk to my clients in a professional manner, I carry out my work in a professional manner, and I try to maintain a professional standard, is still does not make me, a tree cutter/arborist/faller/lumberjack a professional, it makes me bloody good at my job, that's all.

I/we in general, aRe not on the same level as someone who has studied for years to get a doctorate, or become a lawyer, or even landscape architects. My son studied and is a landscape architect, the level of depth of knowledge across the subject matter blows me away, he IMO is more professional than a tree cutting personage.

How are we perceived by the public then? Well most think you're the type of bloke who hacks trees so the power lines don't get fouled, and "I hope you're not going to do that to my tree!!" Is generally the sort of comment I hear.