zig zag failure?

[sloth]

You know several climbers who are not on AT.

Have them shot at Dawn.

 

Why wait?

[holdatcharlie]

I think Jonesie is in an unenviable position. He cannot promise anything without direction from Petzl. He is in their hands. And Petzl will obviously do anything to avoid a recall or give money back. They are frantically trying to rescue this mess. I suspect they are putting a lot of effort into working on some retrofit device to retain the krab in the 'correct' orientation. That would be the quickest and least costlly get-out. That will go to the dealers and thence to their ZZ customers. If I'm right will people you ZZ be happy with that? Will the top connector still be strong enough long-term!

[raker]

I cant see petzl wanting to recall thousands of units.A solution to make those existing appear safe will be a compromise, and nobodies prepared to have the wool pulled over their eyes when it comes to safety.

Bottom line is, those side plates look like they need a bit of over engineering at the weak point.Might only be two or three mil.A few grammes, but customers need reasurance and a bodge just wont do.If it costs in tooling up and other expenses are what it takes to salvage their reputation then so be it.

If they have to recall them, they will just have to suck it up,otherwise they will struggle to sell anymore.

I bought the zigzag as a treat to myself and thought it would be a lot of fun, but i`m a bit peed off at the moment.

[Taupotreeman]

Ours is back in the office and won't be used even if Petzl give the all clear or supply a captive carabina or a rubber pinch. I'm just not convinced that, in the case of a decent swing on it, it wont break. I don't want to be second guessing my gear while I'm climbing. Neither should I need to check it every couple of seconds. I said a fair while ago on the other ZZ thread that I'd stick with my SJ until the ZZ was proven and I'm happy it's still in my bag. My 2IC is back to his hitch cord.

[Grais]

I think Jonesie is in an unenviable position. ....

 

I do not doubt that for one second, I would hate to be a retailer/distributor and dealing with this right now.

[coleman]

Yes, we mustn't forget that the guy who fell managed to generate @4kn somehow!

 

Am I right in saying he was under instruction at the time? On a training course?

 

I'd say there are questions to be answered there as well.

 

The ZZ is able to decend very fast, with an abrupt stop over a long distance could it get to 4kn??

[Grais]

The ZZ is able to decend very fast, with an abrupt stop over a long distance could it get to 4kn??

 

Yes.

..

[Marc]

I have to agree with you on this, throughout this thread I've tried to side with the ZZ, one point though Petzl did test for cross loading it just appears they did not test thoroughly enough.

I to read the literature and saw no warning of the dangers, we've been asked to stop using it because its not suitable as is, there in not fit for purpose.

 

Sorry jonsie for giving you stick after all your the only dealer to be proactive in this thread and please never stop.

 

Sorry but I dont call cross loading a carabiner and suddenly stopping using it the wrong way.

I call that regular working enviroment.

They failed to test for that eventuality.

They made a mistake.

There was no USE THIS WITH CAUTION take care to NEVER CROSS LOAD A CARABINER in this particlaur configuaration, with a little picture explaining the warning of course, now if there was such a warning, and a person did that, that would be using it incorrectly. They would have failed to follow instructions, failed to follow a warning.

How did this climber fail to use the ZigZag as instructed. I looked over the original PDF and failed to see any specific warning about cross loading.

Perhaps I missed it ? Wouldnt be the first time, apologies if I did.

I know cross loading is never advisable, but our carabiners are as strong as they are, for a reason, so that if they do get cross loaded we are still safe.

Bottom line.

Yes our system may be screwed up, and we may be hanging half upside down, but a vital PPE connection did not fail because we have the safeguard built in.

I know Jonsie is probably just repeating what Petzl has stated, but that is lawyer speak, the reality is reality.

I cannot speak for the rest of you guys and gals, but when I climb trees, when I risk my life, I like to deal in absolutes.

Something works and will continue to work, or it doesnt, no half measures at 60 ft.

[Joe Loggs]

The ZZ is able to decend very fast, with an abrupt stop over a long distance could it get to 4kn??

 

Surely the rope stretch would eliminate a lot of the force on a abrupt stop?

[Taupotreeman]

I haven't used the zig zag but I was thinking about it the other day and wondered what would happen if you tried something along the lines of that shown in Joe Harris' spiderjackery video with it.

 

 

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