Prices too cheap

[Ty Korrigan]

eliminate the 'fringe contractors'. i.e. gypos, cowboys, gardeners etc and make it an elite only QUOTE]

 

Ah...the final solution!

Just should we do this? 'Pop a cap in their ass'...?

Ty

[Devonchopper]

Been self employed doing this work for 12 years now, the last 7 as a climber and it is such an undervalued profession. If i give a quote for over £400 then usually the job never gets done. Had a friends dad with a MASSIVE conifer (5ft across the bottom) ask for a rough idea of price. He asked if it would be a 4 figure sum...... it would take 3 blokes 4 days to safely take the tree down. when i said "yep, over £1000" - he turned away and didn't ask for a written quote. He's an estate agent too!

I earn more money cutting grass in the summer and the costs are tiny compared to the Arb work. No danger or complaints or risk of breakages etc..Seriously considering jacking it in and going back to regular maintenance stuff on an hourly rate.

Also we very rarely have an easy days work, ALWAYS physically demanding. Round here, if its an easy fell etc then matey who's taken early retirement, esate car + trailer with a 13" stihl will cut tree down on an hourly rate and make a right pigs ear of it.

But the worst thing of all is that we NEVER get made tea/ coffee. But when the plumber rocks up on £400 a day he gets a bacon sandwich!!!

Rant over.!

[Hodge]

thought id chuck my two pence in here.

Did an apprenticeship in bricklaying but worked mainly as a general builder, bro in law is a climber and as such hes carried plenty hods and ive done plenty of days as a groundy (wouldn't catch me up the tree though)

I reckon i use tools of more value than him because the range of work i do is so diverse, carpentry brickwork, groundwork,roofing, scaffolding etc. But minus scaffolding his job is more dangerous. I can earn slighty more per day than him.

Price myself out labour only at £120-180mostly depending how rich orhow much i like and respect customer. But the main difference i see is the size of jobs taken on. Most of my jobs may last 6 months to year and are priced not day rate. also include lots of materials etc. his jobs a big one wont last a week and no materials just removal of rubbish if customerswants it gone.

Basically all this means your prices are more transparent. Work can be quantified easier, my prices get lost in different trades, materials etc so customer doesent know what they are paying for, so i can afford to pay subbies a bit more.

Not to say Polish and others aren't making this hard, Getting out of construction now anyways with aim to buy small woodland instead.

Hope this helps

James

 

I can't see how your tools have more value than us tree surgeons?? Van, Chipper, stump grinder, chainsaws,hedge cutters, climbing kit, insurance?

[muttley9050]

stihl 12" grinder, various smaller grinders, cordless drills etc, corded drills etc, chop saw,table saw, ppe(cheaper than yours), digger, dumper, big mixer,small mixer, whacker plate,plaster mixing paddle, copious amounts of scaffolding and stageing Van,trailer, loads of hand tools and the list goes on. Of course some can be hired when needed but better to own your own. Only one of these i dont own and regularly hired is a dumper, but then i do have 3 wheel barrows. The scurge of the general jobbing builder, too many trades. Ever see how much money insurance companies want for people who remove supporting walls in million pound houses.

[Le Sanglier]

stihl 12" grinder, various smaller grinders, cordless drills etc, corded drills etc, chop saw,table saw, ppe(cheaper than yours), digger, dumper, big mixer,small mixer, whacker plate,plaster mixing paddle, copious amounts of scaffolding and stageing Van,trailer, loads of hand tools and the list goes on. Of course some can be hired when needed but better to own your own. Only one of these i dont own and regularly hired is a dumper, but then i do have 3 wheel barrows. The scurge of the general jobbing builder, too many trades. Ever see how much money insurance companies want for people who remove supporting walls in million pound houses.

 

He's got a point!

[Stereo]

It's a funny one isn't it. I can see where you Guys are coming from but can see the other side. I have a multi stemmed big sycamore that is sprouting out of an ancient shed wall and destroying it. It maybe 80ft tall or so. I look at it all the time. Would be nice to remove it. I could do it myself and get loads of firewood but it scares me and I wouldn't tackle it. I'm figuring a team would remove it in a day. For maybe 400 or so but that's a lot of money down here in devon.

 

So I keep looking at it. The other day someone told me of a guy who would remove it just for the wood.

 

Tempting from my point of view. Pay 400 and get to keep the firewood (maybe £200 market value and i would have to log it myself) or just get some unqualified guy in and it will be gone ( unless he kills himself doing it).

 

Your problem is there are just too many people willing to turn their hands to it. I'm. Not sure what the answer is. The fatality rate is probably not high enough to justify any kind of regulation.

[elwapo]

Everyone wants work , and the down side to that is we are killing the industry, going one better on a quote, not making the right money on the job with the hope more work will come from it. colleges churning out more and more kids , who have not got jobs .

. sorry my pennys

[agg221]

It's a funny one isn't it. I can see where you Guys are coming from but can see the other side. I have a multi stemmed big sycamore that is sprouting out of an ancient shed wall and destroying it. It maybe 80ft tall or so. I look at it all the time. Would be nice to remove it. I could do it myself and get loads of firewood but it scares me and I wouldn't tackle it. I'm figuring a team would remove it in a day. For maybe 400 or so but that's a lot of money down here in devon.

 

So I keep looking at it. The other day someone told me of a guy who would remove it just for the wood.

 

Tempting from my point of view. Pay 400 and get to keep the firewood (maybe £200 market value and i would have to log it myself) or just get some unqualified guy in and it will be gone ( unless he kills himself doing it).

 

I think this is a very valid point, particularly when the tree can be dropped fairly easily without much risk of damage to fragile things underneath.

 

I have an acquaintance who runs a small groundworks company - him and his son. I was talking to him the other day and he mentioned that on a recent job remodelling a front driveway the client commented that they didn't really want the 60ft conifer in the front garden, but had been quoted £900 to remove it. They had a look and reckoned they could do it - the client said he'd see them right if they did.

 

The son climbed up as high as he could get, tied a rope to the top and attached it to the excavator, then sawed the top off while the father pulled it clear. He then worked his way down, sawing of side branches and dropping them, with top sections being pulled clear by the excavator as they were sawn out, until the remaining stick fitted in the front garden and was dug out and knocked over with the excavator.

 

No chainsaws were involved (knowing the people involved this will have been done with a B&Q panel saw!). There will also have been no PPE or insurance, but the risks were clearly quite low and the whole job was completed, including stump removal (loaded onto a truck and taken away for legit disposal) in about 2.5hrs with 2 people. It was at the client's discretion how much they paid, and they decided on £175 each, with which the two people concerned were very happy.

 

I'm not condoning what they did, but the point is that they did no damage, the risk was very low and this compares with a 'professional' quote of £900 for 5hrs work, which would have been less if you used a chainsaw!

 

Quotes need to be realistic for a client to take them, and some of the comments made on this site about "I priced it based on his Bentley on the drive" encourage people to look elsewhere for someone who is covering their overheads and making a sensible profit, rather than looking to exploit the customer.

 

For reference, because I don't climb I can't access the bigger trees at my place, but I know exactly what I want doing to them. I have happily paid someone from this site to come and do some work on one of them, and was very pleased with their work. They set their price, effectively as a subbie climber (knowing that I was not able to carry out aerial rescue) and the job was done. At some point, I'll happily pay someone to do some more, but like Stereo (and the person I mentioned above) I will be looking for a price that reflects the job at hand, not the nature of the car I drive and hence my apparent financial status (although given the state of our cars it might even get us a discount )

 

Alec

[Hodge]

I think this is a very valid point, particularly when the tree can be dropped fairly easily without much risk of damage to fragile things underneath.

 

I have an acquaintance who runs a small groundworks company - him and his son. I was talking to him the other day and he mentioned that on a recent job remodelling a front driveway the client commented that they didn't really want the 60ft conifer in the front garden, but had been quoted £900 to remove it. They had a look and reckoned they could do it - the client said he'd see them right if they did.

 

The son climbed up as high as he could get, tied a rope to the top and attached it to the excavator, then sawed the top off while the father pulled it clear. He then worked his way down, sawing of side branches and dropping them, with top sections being pulled clear by the excavator as they were sawn out, until the remaining stick fitted in the front garden and was dug out and knocked over with the excavator.

 

No chainsaws were involved (knowing the people involved this will have been done with a B&Q panel saw!). There will also have been no PPE or insurance, but the risks were clearly quite low and the whole job was completed, including stump removal (loaded onto a truck and taken away for legit disposal) in about 2.5hrs with 2 people. It was at the client's discretion how much they paid, and they decided on £175 each, with which the two people concerned were very happy.

 

I'm not condoning what they did, but the point is that they did no damage, the risk was very low and this compares with a 'professional' quote of £900 for 5hrs work, which would have been less if you used a chainsaw!

 

Quotes need to be realistic for a client to take them, and some of the comments made on this site about "I priced it based on his Bentley on the drive" encourage people to look elsewhere for someone who is covering their overheads and making a sensible profit, rather than looking to exploit the customer.

 

For reference, because I don't climb I can't access the bigger trees at my place, but I know exactly what I want doing to them. I have happily paid someone from this site to come and do some work on one of them, and was very pleased with their work. They set their price, effectively as a subbie climber (knowing that I was not able to carry out aerial rescue) and the job was done. At some point, I'll happily pay someone to do some more, but like Stereo (and the person I mentioned above) I will be looking for a price that reflects the job at hand, not the nature of the car I drive and hence my apparent financial status (although given the state of our cars it might even get us a discount )

 

Alec

 

What line of work are you in Alec? There will all ways be people who do jobs cheaper but there is all ways risk of what if? If the lad had fallen out of the tree or off the ladder? No insurance, no ppe, etc then they would be screwed. I have a professional company, we are insured up to £5,000000 so that if a branch drops on someone or we break something we are covered, I have employers liability so if my employee breaks his leg at work he is covered, this does not come for free it costs me a lot of money. Then there is the training to be able to do the job to a safe and proficient standard. Then there is equipment, so that we're not dumping the waste on the side of the road. All this cost money. Then I need a wage and I want a decent wage to be able to put up with customers who have no idea:)

[Rob D]

I'd say in that example the £900-00 was way over priced.... I bet if the customer had got a few more quotes he'd have had a couple around £300-00 to £350-00 all in and done by a pro 2 man team.

 

 

Most people I know quote on a day rate but you will always have other firms way more expensive. I know a large firm near me used to be on average 2 to 3 times more than I quoted (but bear in mind they were vat registered and I was not).

 

 

The larger tree firms see to have to charge a lot more than the two man teams due to larger overheads....