Slings or Knots

[AsianArbOly]

Basically what do you guys prefer and why?

 

What are the advantages of using knots (running bowline, timber/clove hitch) to tie limbs to the lowering rope. Personally I use a sling for both thinner branches and blocks of main stems.

[josharb87]

This is a really good quote from member MOG on another thread

 

Originally Posted by MOG

 

cool vid bro,

 

hopefully abit of helpful knowledge and something to think over.....

 

i wont tip tie anything unless i got a winch pretty much. i think its just dodgy and you can get hit very easily by the piece of wood. i use steel bineer 65kn and done some very big pieces with it. if its getting big i just wrap it round the wood twice, so the friction round the wood takes the weight. i think/know rope on rope snaps with heat and friction.

 

Slings are good but usually static and meant for straight pulls not dynamic loading. and when you choke it, haves the strength too. where as the rope is/should be more dynamic, and when tightening round the stem works like a shock absorber. this is just the way i think and my theory, which to me makes sense.

 

kinda the same about using Knots ay, if a bowline can take upto 50% of the rope strength and a splice 90%. surely it break the rope at the knot before the bineer? so less knot and bends the better no?

 

if the logs are huge then and big butty shackle is better. but i still think bineer would be ok, i snatched a 800kg log, with 3 wraps back on to bineer in Oz and was fine.

 

i have only seen 1 or 2 old bent bineers and thats when they have been loaded on the nose. and i think a lower kn rating. some feedback/thoughts would be cool too?

 

everyone different like you say, i got a fair bit experience and when you actually sit down and think about it all makes sense in theory...... and in my case so far touch wood, has worked fine.

 

Mog

 

Personally most of my rigging is running bowline or bowline with crab to choke the piece, followed by a half hitch, or 2 for big chogs, but will use slings for speedlining multiple branches on a rigging plate

 

reasoning is that ive snapped slings before, 1 more item to fail, i think slings are clutter. but when speedlining, having a set of diffrent sized slings are great for attatching many branches to a rigging plate, to, for example, send down a whole whorl of pine branches

 

i did hear about a test done on a tape sling, it had been on a climbers harness for at most 1 year, rated to 25kn, and failed at 600kgs

[skip]

the 600kg sounds like an exageration IMO, I pulled a 12 YO sling, faded to F' chokered to the thinniest pin we could find strong enough 7 it broke at way more than that and it was a 22kn sling!

 

slings for top rope rigging every day, until the lumps get too heavy (1000kg with my bigger slings & wizard Biners 70kn) then tie strait on

 

NEVER use karabiners when snatching (negative rigging) ALLWAYS tie strait on

NEVER choker a karabiner, the effects of this are well researched & well known it is an absolute no-no even if you half hitch/ wrap 1st or whatever, it is sooo avoidable and at no aditional time cost, it's not even lazy, its completely un-nesisary!

 

Personally i dont use dyneema slings for arb rigging, they melt too easy & research has shown that nylon slings have a better CTF (cycle to failure)

 

hope that helps

 

(in brief if it's safe to do so SLING AWAY!)

[Mark Bolam]

Slings are faster up top and on the ground, but I only use them for brush usually.

 

Rope only for negative stuff, for sure.

[josharb87]

Oooohhh that all sounds exaggerated to me skip

[Billy]

Sling and Iran on a spliced eye for brush and fairly small stuff. Knots for the big stuff, for strength and when rigging a spar the Iran hits the pulley before the sling is right which is a bit dodgy.

[Robert_S]

cut n chuck

 

about the same system as mark when i occasionally rig.

[MOG]

yeah Skip,

 

i heard what you saying but you got some research? i have! i been rigging like that for years. thats alot of research with different binneers, ropes, trees, people etc etc. Yes i agree when its huge negative rigging, i would use a shackle. i would love to see this research tho?

 

i know about side loading but ....... halving the load of a sling? probs static too? and most of the ones i've seen are frayed, old and very faded. Rope on Rope? potential for the binneer to the sling to twist in motion and side load? Knots in rope?.....

 

these are all questions and obseverations to take into account of each one and add together, now have you created a stronger rigging system?. this was my point, the bigger picture and smaller details.

 

i am not saying by any means this is everyones gear, just alot i seen and worked with. i agree it can be quicker setting up a few slings at once. but most often its not needed unless you doing Heli work. If your removing a whole tree, nothing wrong with bineer through the crotch until you get to the big stuff. that is quicker than a sling on both ends, in my opinion.

 

i wish i could find out the forces but alas thats not going to happen. i am just speaking from my experiences. i think slings are good for static lifting. You already have a huge adjustable sling in your hand!

 

To be fair i most worked with good groundies and they know how to rig. this greatly reduces the forces and i dont think you get near breaking a bineer. and if you are then, you already know your self thats its dodgy and you should use something else. Education is the main factor and its cool to discuss these different point.

 

Quote....

 

it is sooo avoidable and at no aditional time cost, it's not even lazy, its completely un-nesisary!

 

hmmmmmm, lol thats a pretty funny quote!

 

Mog

[Le Sanglier]

Karabiner on the end of the lowering rope for light to medium lowering, put a half hitch in front for the heavy stuff.

[AsianArbOly]

Good points made by all me thinks. i'll stick to the slings for brush and try knots with and without biners for the heavy stuff in the future