Firewood delivery costs.

[Crazy Cutter]

Yes, I think its 3300kg if used for hire and reward, might be wrong on that. carrying logs there is no need to go to top weights, its not a heavy product for its size dry. Not sure you can plate at what you like, type approvals come into play but it should be do able on a new build trailer I would have thought.

 

There is a loop hole when you are taking equipment to site within 50k of base, providing you have a trailer max gross weight of below 3300kg then you wont need a tacho. Load it with timber that is for re processing and sale on the return and you will. You also have to comply with drivers hours regs if driving under tacho requirements.

 

 

This is all so grey! So ifor need to stop making 3500kg trailers and i take it i'm ok if i tow the trailer with a 4x4? What about the exemption of 1050kg unladen weight? Everyone it seems in norfolk including the large estates all deliver with large trailers so to avoid the regs we will all need to buy transits with no towbars?

[openspaceman]

This is all so grey! So ifor need to stop making 3500kg trailers and i take it i'm ok if i tow the trailer with a 4x4? What about the exemption of 1050kg unladen weight? Everyone it seems in norfolk including the large estates all deliver with large trailers so to avoid the regs we will all need to buy transits with no towbars?

 

It's complex but not grey. There are three sets of regulations

 

1: licence issues:

 

you can deliver using a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes maximum allowable mass i.e. it must not exceed nor be plated for more using a B licence. You may tow a trailer up to 750kg within this 3500kg on a b licence.

 

To tow a 3500 mam trailer you need a C1E licence because the gross train weight will exceed 3500 kg when the trailer is laden. There has recently been a perverse but helpful new ruling by VOSA that as long as the vehicle is plated and legal to tow the trailer the actual loaded weight of the trailer will be used rather than its MAM, this appears to benefit only B licence use as the same interpetation is not used over 3500kg VW

 

2: Driver's hours rules:

 

Goods vehicle drivers must conform to the daily driving limits, if the vehicle exceeds 3500kgs then a tachograph must be used to record these driving hours. I can see no exception for vehicles delivering logs not to have a tachograph other than if they are delivering from a forestry or agricultural enterprise that has produced (grown??) those logs and within a 100km radius, you have to be selling exceptionally expensive logs to deliver more than 10 km.

 

3 Operator's licence

 

Goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes MAM need an operator's licence which involves having an operating centre and proof of regular vehicle inspections, there is an exception if the unladen weight of the vehicle is <1,525kg, long ago it was possible to do this with a petrol engined truck but I cannot see a modern diesel engined truck grossing 3500 kg getting under 1800 now.

 

There is a further exemption if you tow a trailer that weighs less than 1020kg unladen

 

As I see it that means I, not enjoying agricultural nor forestry exemptions, having a B, C1E licence from before 1997 can make deliveries with:

 

a transit plated at 3500kg

 

a transit plus trailer up to 2800kg if its the low geared one plated for that else 2250kg but must have tachograph fitted as long as the trailer is less than 1020 unladen ( there is a sting here in that tecnically the transit would need to be plated at 3490kg for this combination as I interpret it.

 

An unladen landrover weighing 1800 kg towing a 1700kg trailer

 

A landrover and trailer combination up to 6000kg if I use a tachograph ( is there a 3500 gvw 7500GTW vehicle available?). The dual purpose vehicle exemption to O licence applies even with a heavy trailer but I suspect Discvery and Range Rover will exceed 2040kg and will not be dual purpose.

 

A 7.5 tonne truck with a tachograph and O licence

 

A 7.5 tonne truck towing a 750 kg trailer with a tachograph and O licence because my C1E is endorsed 107

[Crazy Cutter]

It's complex but not grey. There are three sets of regulations

 

1: licence issues:

 

you can deliver using a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes maximum allowable mass i.e. it must not exceed nor be plated for more using a B licence. You may tow a trailer up to 750kg within this 3500kg on a b licence.

 

To tow a 3500 mam trailer you need a C1E licence because the gross train weight will exceed 3500 kg when the trailer is laden. There has recently been a perverse but helpful new ruling by VOSA that as long as the vehicle is plated and legal to tow the trailer the actual loaded weight of the trailer will be used rather than its MAM, this appears to benefit only B licence use as the same interpetation is not used over 3500kg VW

 

2: Driver's hours rules:

 

Goods vehicle drivers must conform to the daily driving limits, if the vehicle exceeds 3500kgs then a tachograph must be used to record these driving hours. I can see no exception for vehicles delivering logs not to have a tachograph other than if they are delivering from a forestry or agricultural enterprise that has produced (grown??) those logs and within a 100km radius, you have to be selling exceptionally expensive logs to deliver more than 10 km.

 

3 Operator's licence

 

Goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes MAM need an operator's licence which involves having an operating centre and proof of regular vehicle inspections, there is an exception if the unladen weight of the vehicle is <1,525kg, long ago it was possible to do this with a petrol engined truck but I cannot see a modern diesel engined truck grossing 3500 kg getting under 1800 now.

 

There is a further exemption if you tow a trailer that weighs less than 1020kg unladen

 

As I see it that means I, not enjoying agricultural nor forestry exemptions, having a B, C1E licence from before 1997 can make deliveries with:

 

a transit plated at 3500kg

 

a transit plus trailer up to 2800kg if its the low geared one plated for that else 2250kg but must have tachograph fitted as long as the trailer is less than 1020 unladen ( there is a sting here in that tecnically the transit would need to be plated at 3490kg for this combination as I interpret it.

 

An unladen landrover weighing 1800 kg towing a 1700kg trailer

 

A landrover and trailer combination up to 6000kg if I use a tachograph ( is there a 3500 gvw 7500GTW vehicle available?). The dual purpose vehicle exemption to O licence applies even with a heavy trailer but I suspect Discvery and Range Rover will exceed 2040kg and will not be dual purpose.

 

A 7.5 tonne truck with a tachograph and O licence

 

A 7.5 tonne truck towing a 750 kg trailer with a tachograph and O licence because my C1E is endorsed 107

 

Why would i need C1E when i have B+E allowing me to drive up to 3500 and tow 3500?

 

My landrover and trailer comb is 6550kg why is yours 6000kg?

[openspaceman]

Why would i need C1E when i have B+E allowing me to drive up to 3500 and tow 3500?

 

You may have me there, I thought B and B+E still had to come under a 3500 GTW, as I have C1E this is not something I have worried about.

 

 

My landrover and trailer comb is 6550kg why is yours 6000kg?

 

Because I hadn't checked and have two landrovers, the 110 hardtop is as you say 6550 and in fact offers me the best payload with a trailer and not needing O kicence but it would still need a tacho which would cost me more than the vehicle is worth to fit.

 

This can carry 1000kg and pull my bateson tipper carrying 1800 kg at payload of 2800kg over 15 builkders bags of bone dry logs if you could fit them on and get them off.

 

In fact whilst it was a reliable cheap workhorse (V8 LPG) I haven't used it other than to drive to and from MOT station each year for 4 years, I should sell it.

 

The other is plated at 3650 and dubious if it can be used for goods at all.

[openspaceman]

Why would i need C1E when i have B+E allowing me to drive up to 3500 and tow 3500?

 

 

You are right, it's the BE licence that permits driving of up to 3500kg vehicle and towing a trailer up to 3500kg

[StephF]

I've worked out my fuel cost last week at 30p mile pulling 3 m logs in an L200 mitsibushi + trailer.

I generally deliver free up to 20 miles as I assume a % of price is for fuel /time.

Over 20 miles I do charge extra and never get any complaints (up to 30 miles and extra £10)

[gensetsteve]

Taxis do 50 mpg and even they charge £1 a mile. I tend to work out what it is going to cost me a 50 mile round trip will be at least 3/4 hr extra and cost me £20 in fuel so you got to add at least £20.

[sandbach-sticks]

I generally deliver for free up to 20 miles, providing there is a decent load on. I have delivered 80 mile 200 bags of kindling, charged for fuel but not time. I don't have many holidays so make a day out of deliveries and take the wife, has worked well so far, we have met some nice folk and had some good days out plus gain orders on the way. I explain to the wife that she is lucky, and needs to work extra hard on the kindling machine to make up for her treat.

[baz]

The O licence requirements depends on whether the vehicle or vehicle and trailer are plated or not. I would suspect it is something that is very often overlooked and infringed upon. The best source for information on weights and regs is always the gov websites and VOSA. Here are a couple of links on the regs and excluded vehicles.

 

Do you need a goods vehicle operator's licence? | Business Link

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Vehicles%20Exempt%20From%20Operator%20Licensing%20Requirements.pdf

 

 

If you do local deliveries like I do using farm equipment and longer distance by courier you don't need to concern yourself with these formalities.

Edited September 3, 2012 by baz

[Alycidon]

I've worked out my fuel cost last week at 30p mile pulling 3 m logs in an L200 mitsibushi + trailer.

I generally deliver free up to 20 miles as I assume a % of price is for fuel /time.

Over 20 miles I do charge extra and never get any complaints (up to 30 miles and extra £10)

 

Fleet facts magazine tells me that a new Disco diesel now costs 1.50 per mile to run, + trailer costs and extra fuel consumption. My Disco is a series 2, so little depreciation but quite expensive to maintain.

 

I am looking to base my delivery fees on 1.50 per mile there AND BACK !!. So one bag is free at 5 mile radius, so 15 miles = 10 miles each way to be paid for at 1.50 + VAT at 20%. Thats £36 inc VAT. Above that its easier to use a pallet carrier.

 

30 miles each way at £10 in total goes nowhere, it buys you a gallon and a half of diesel, pulling a trailer thats about 20 miles.

 

A