Elf n Safety

[treequip]

Andy, I fully agree - compulsory education would have been far more beneficial.

 

I also think that the current course costs are far too high for the majority of people. I was looking at doing CS38 - course fee over £700, add loss of earnings for the week of £500 (makes £1200) - it's just not viable for someone like me who who is struggling every month to pay the bills.

 

The HSE do have a system where they can issue an improvement notice for minor offences but those who have blown off every rule in the book are subject to more stringent treatment.

 

Just accept that this clown is an example and move on.

[HCR]

The argument that it costs the NHS good money is flawed, no one was injured in this case, therefore no costs were incurred surely?

 

That's a lot like saying drink driving is alright if you don't crash!

[Andy Collins]

The HSE do have a system where they can issue an improvement notice for minor offences but those who have blown off every rule in the book are subject to more stringent treatment.

 

Just accept that this clown is an example and move on.

 

No, I dont accept that. He may be a clown, he may be a fool, but who is to say the HSE system as it is is the best way? Speeding used to be points and a fine, now there is the opportunity to educate speeders, and make them realise the consequence of their actions. speeding costs far more lives and serious injuries than Joe Bloggs wearing trackies and trainers to cut a tree, but the education route is already proven to work. IMO he has only committed a minor offence, had someone then been injured or killed it would be a major offence.

As far as drink/driving goes, I dont recall any drink/driver getting such a large fine for a first offence, correct me if Im wrong please.

[Andy Collins]

Thats a bit flawed, if the Penalty for drink drivers is a farce, surely the case is to beef up the penalty for drink driving rather than using a farce as a benchmark for other penalties?

 

As well as speeding, drink/driving takes and ruins lives, the fines for such are paltry, but fact nontheless, to put this fellows offence above drink driving in the scheme of things therefore is flawed too. My point is, how can this case be more serious than either speeding or drink/driving, when in this case no one was killed injured or even affected by this mans actions. Surely a court works on the facts before it, and the severity of the punishment should be proportianate to the fallout of that mans actions?

[skyhuck]

How any one can see this as OK is beyond me???????????

 

Every day on the roads I see things 1000's of times more dangerous than this and much of it is LEGAL!!!!!!!!! 44tonne trucks passing children at 30MPH with feet to spare!!!!!!!!

 

Much of the HSE stuff we are saddled withs is utter nonsense and is makes those with skill work as if they are incompetent muppets.

 

We are a tiny industry and there are unfortunately many within it who can cash in on more legislation, these are the once who the HSE consult when making the rules

 

Why is doing 70mph surrounded by many other doing the same safe, but free climbing a tree, with continued 3 points of contact dangerous??

 

Why do I need to be tied in twice when cutting, because I may cut one of my tie ins??? If I thought for one minuet there was a chance I was going to cut my line I'd give up now!!

 

If I thought for one second that it was all the rules that were keeping me safe I quit double quick!!!!

[treequip]

.

 

We are a tiny industry !!!!

 

And therein lies the problem, the law is a blunt implement and is framed to capture all and it can't be tailored to means tested fines.

 

 

Looking at the bigger picture, if, as some say the fine should be smaller what would be the point, we could afford to ignore it and the bigger firms in other industries would be laughing themselves silly if fines are cheaper than PPE and training.

 

Tree work is a small industry and many in it are single traders who are blinkered by thier dedication to trees or adrenaline and can't see further than the difference between husky or stihl, tachyon or tuefelberger.

 

Once again this guys fine and costs are probably LESS that the appropriate training and PPE would have been. You work it out, he got a cheap deal.

 

If this case does send his little outfit to the wall it will be Darwinism. If he can't afford the fine then he couldn't afford the proper way so the business wasn't viable, let the gardener stick to cutting grass, if he wants to play arb, then let him get his hand in his pocket and play on a levell field like the rest of us.

 

I think I will be off to work in jeans and a bit of old polly three strand on Monday, anyone wanna buy some top of the line used climbing kit? Plenty of shiny shiny, I have a first aid kit you can have as well.........

[High Scale]

Andy, I fully agree - compulsory education would have been far more beneficial.

 

I also think that the current course costs are far too high for the majority of people. I was looking at doing CS38 - course fee over £700, add loss of earnings for the week of £500 (makes £1200) - it's just not viable for someone like me who who is struggling every month to pay the bills.

 

That seems steep, I just did my 38 and 39 and it cost £190. Of course I was offered 'training' but why on earth would I need that? 20 years working as a climber is all the training I needed.

[Mesterh]

Who's to say this guy is doing it wrong!

 

He's 53 and still climbing trees! Judging by the amount of injury threads that pop up most of us Pro's won't get to his age as climbers!

 

Fining this guy won't do a thing for the industry, are we all going to stop one handing 020's and never free climb at any point again?

 

I always knew ladders were the future.

[treequip]

Who's to say this guy is doing it wrong!

 

He's 53 and still climbing trees! Judging by the amount of injury threads that pop up most of us Pro's won't get to his age as climbers!

 

Fining this guy won't do a thing for the industry, are we all going to stop one handing 020's and never free climb at any point again?

 

I always knew ladders were the future.

 

Haven't you been reading this?

 

He didn't get fined for one handing the saw did he, he got fined for having bugger all PPE, no training and having someone work for him with bugger all PPE and training.

 

What will it do for the industry? Well, it tells everyone that is you don't provide PPE and training for anyone that needs it you are going to get a slapping in court.

 

Why are you siding with this clown, he is breaking all the rules you and I abide by and till his spanking in court was saving thousands, that's an upgrade on your motor or a real nice Holliday he could have and you couldn't.

[Dean Lofthouse]

Health and Safety is there to protect life.

 

There was an unneccessarily high risk of someone losing theres or being seriously injured in this case.

 

Totally justifiable fine IMO.

 

How it was brought to the hse,s attention is another subject