Elf n Safety

[HCR]

Anyone know how it works with "in house tickets?"

 

I remember getting trained for working on a platform on the tunnel but it was purely in house and I couldn't use it elsewhere.

 

 

Just a though as I have always wondered.

 

Depends on whether that law says that you need a specific, regulated test (such as for driving) or 'adequate training'. The latter can be provided in house, and a court can decide if it is indeed adequate in the event of things going Pete Tong.

[Mesterh]

Haven't you been reading this?

 

He didn't get fined for one handing the saw did he, he got fined for having bugger all PPE, no training and having someone work for him with bugger all PPE and training.

 

What will it do for the industry? Well, it tells everyone that is you don't provide PPE and training for anyone that needs it you are going to get a slapping in court.

 

Why are you siding with this clown, he is breaking all the rules you and I abide by and till his spanking in court was saving thousands, that's an upgrade on your motor or a real nice Holliday he could have and you couldn't.

 

Of course I didn't read it, I read the thread title and based all my comments solely on that.

 

I'm not completely siding with him but if I condemn him them I may as well condemn myself and a good majority of professional arbs too.

 

You do know that best practice states we should all retrain/do a refresher course every 5 years from the date we acquired our certs?

How many keep that up? Does that mean everyone who doesn't is incompetent and is putting themselves and others at risk, while someone who has just got their certs for the first time with minimal training and experience is ok and safe?

 

Someone could have taken a pic of me the other day using the 020 on the ground with no helmet, ear muffs and eye protection. The HSE could have looked into it and fined me for not keeping up with my training, not having tickets for using a ladder, not having any training for manual lifting, not having my LOLER up to date etc etc etc. Why didn't I have a helmet on? Because it was hot and I was dragging brash but needed to whip down a bit of scrub but cba going to get a ground saw and helmet.

 

Or they could have seen me a couple of days previously carrying out a an awkward bit of a reduction on a TPO tree over plenty of targets using rigging and all the skills we need daily. Plus I was all PPE'd up.

 

Do we all abide by the rules and regs we should all the time? Have we all have the training and can prove we have by producing up to date certs? Do we bollocks!

[Mark Bolam]

Honest post mate.

 

I abide by all the rules all the time.

 

When I'm on a public forum, anyway....

[treequip]

Of course I didn't read it, I read the thread title and based all my comments solely on that.

 

I'm not completely siding with him but if I condemn him them I may as well condemn myself and a good majority of professional arbs too.

 

You do know that best practice states we should all retrain/do a refresher course every 5 years from the date we acquired our certs?

How many keep that up? Does that mean everyone who doesn't is incompetent and is putting themselves and others at risk, while someone who has just got their certs for the first time with minimal training and experience is ok and safe?

 

Someone could have taken a pic of me the other day using the 020 on the ground with no helmet, ear muffs and eye protection. The HSE could have looked into it and fined me for not keeping up with my training, not having tickets for using a ladder, not having any training for manual lifting, not having my LOLER up to date etc etc etc. Why didn't I have a helmet on? Because it was hot and I was dragging brash but needed to whip down a bit of scrub but cba going to get a ground saw and helmet.

 

Or they could have seen me a couple of days previously carrying out a an awkward bit of a reduction on a TPO tree over plenty of targets using rigging and all the skills we need daily. Plus I was all PPE'd up.

 

Do we all abide by the rules and regs we should all the time? Have we all have the training and can prove we have by producing up to date certs? Do we bollocks!

 

I get what you mean, but look at it like this, I have a driving licence and now and again I drive other taphan in acrodance with that licence, I do however have a licence.

[gensetsteve]

You could interpret the hse rules as should rather than must but will need to justify your in house training in a court of law. Most of the lads on here with years of experience will be more than able to train staff in the correct and safe use of chainsaws. This must be one of the few proffessions where your certs are good for life. I had to pass a cs cs course to go on a building site and service a generator. 3 months later they binned the old cert and brought in a new one. £40 up the shoot and half a day lost work. The test can be passed if you are east european and dont speak much english as its multi choice and mostly pictures. How would you guys feel if over night they binned your qualifications and created a whole new set for you incl fees.

[Pedroski]

I get what you mean, but look at it like this, I have a driving licence and now and again I drive other taphan in acrodance with that licence, I do however have a licence.

 

Ha, well then, here's a problem. You are fully aware of the requirement to have a driving licence, you are fully aware of the rules of the road as demonstrated by you holding a driving licence, and yet you still drive other than in accordance with that licence. This makes your 'offence' worse, yet the penalties are smaller. Bizarre.

[treequip]

Ha, well then, here's a problem. You are fully aware of the requirement to have a driving licence, you are fully aware of the rules of the road as demonstrated by you holding a driving licence, and yet you still drive other than in accordance with that licence. This makes your 'offence' worse, yet the penalties are smaller. Bizarre.

 

So bending the rules is worse than ignoring them completely?????

 

Where does it say that?........

[Mesterh]

I get what you mean, but look at it like this, I have a driving licence and now and again I drive other taphan in acrodance with that licence, I do however have a licence.

 

Sorry mate I don't understand what you mean.

 

You need a license by law, he doesn't need a license/traing or certs by law.

 

If I would have driven past and seen him doing that job then I would have thought,":laugh1: what's he up to?!!!" but that would have been it.

 

In fact I see something just as comical more or less every time I drive past the the gangs workin for the LA. (btw it is a very large private company and not LA employed staff) People not qualified/trained to carry out the task in hand, not provided with the appropriate ppe etc,etc. Ie grass cutters hacking trees.

 

It's just not worth worrying about and certainly not worthy of fine like this guy got IMO.

 

What I do think is worthy of a whine is when customers get blatantly ripped off or conned and employees or members of the public blatantly being subject to unnecessary dangers. Plus I think it's also worthy of a phone call to the appropriate body, as is a lot of other things that people turn a blind eye to when they shouldn't!

[Pedroski]

So bending the rules is worse than ignoring them completely?????

 

Where does it say that?........

 

Knowing the rules and driving not in accordance to the rules is NOT "bending the rules". It's blatantly breaking them. You MUST, by law, drive in accordance with the rules. In a similar vein, if you drive on the road without having passed a test and without a licence, even if you are driving perfectly well, then you are still breaking the law. If you get stopped and end up in court, or have an accident, then there is no option to prove you were driving safely - no licence, then that's it.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Pedroski

[treequip]

Sorry mate I don't understand what you mean.

 

You need a license by law, he doesn't need a license/traing or certs by law.

 

It's a metaphore