Council Highways Cock-up; What would you do?

[wildewood]

We got a call today that three large trees had fallen across a B road on an Estate we manage the trees for. We inform Estate manger, start to dismantle the trees, council highways officer turns up, followed later by highways gang. So far, so good. Then highways gang start cutting up timber we are dropping and chipping the brash in their chipper. One has jeans and no PPE and the other has Chainsaw trousers and boots, no other PPE and council has no warning signs to shut road etc. I ask crew to put on PPE; they say they will go, and leave us to it rather than put on PPE. I point out stat duty of council to clear highway, one does eventually put on lid , other refuses, continues working with chipper, jeans and attitude etc but no PPE.

So here is the question; complaint to council Monday morning, or accept different working practice when you are 'out in the sticks'?

[likeitorlumpit]

So have they done what is in essence your work (responsibility) Is this a private estate with unadopted roads

If so- you must be chuffed to have their help

If it's adopted then why not leave them to it or is it that you will get paid by the estate so value their help.

Is the worry that if you are getting paid then are they effectively working under your supervision.

I would assume they do their own risk assessment and so it's down to them to stay safe.

But your risk assessment would preclude working alongside anyone not wearing PPE. Have you checked whether they have relevant tickets?

I guess you should have stopped working and told them to leave and unless they did you should have left the site (safe)- then phoned the council officer.

I wouldn't know what to do at the time and similarly would be asking on here- sorry I'm no help at all.

Hope someone else knows

[Taupotreeman]

I think OSH states that you have a duty to protect yourselves and anyone around you and to do what is practicable to keep you, your site and other people safe. If they don't have the PPE then they get off site. I'd imagine if OSH turned up on site you'd get your backside kicked for knowing that they should have PPE, relevant tickets etc and doing nothing about it. Had a mate who booted an OSH auditer off sote before for not wearing a hard hat when he entered the taped off area. His boss gave him (the OSH guy) a written warning.

[Paul Jenks]

It's a challenge to get a right answer as there are a few variables as stated above. The H&S part of me says I'd have told them to go away. The realist part says, " were they any good, did they look like they were going to cause themselves any harm, did they help me earn a bit more, or at the very least make the job easier."

A communication with the council could vary from forceful indignation, copied to as many officials as you can get email addresses for, to a gentle note, to the line manager, stating that the PPE on site on this occasion was note what you'd come to expect of them.

Round here the council workers wear so much PPE I'm surprised they can do much work. (Sorry, my mistake they don't do much work.)

[Dan Earp]

We got a call today that three large trees had fallen across a B road on an Estate we manage the trees for. We inform Estate manger, start to dismantle the trees, council highways officer turns up, followed later by highways gang. So far, so good. Then highways gang start cutting up timber we are dropping and chipping the brash in their chipper. One has jeans and no PPE and the other has Chainsaw trousers and boots, no other PPE and council has no warning signs to shut road etc. I ask crew to put on PPE; they say they will go, and leave us to it rather than put on PPE. I point out stat duty of council to clear highway, one does eventually put on lid , other refuses, continues working with chipper, jeans and attitude etc but no PPE.

So here is the question; complaint to council Monday morning, or accept different working practice when you are 'out in the sticks'?

 

id be pissed if that happened to me. I work for a council and weve got a great boss and equipment( very much looked affter). As a basic rule of thumb, if you do one thing the council are ment to do one more. i.e if they was a fully working crew with upto date pratices this shouldnt of happened,also with the council being h&s mad/overboard id defo contact not just a line manager but the dept manager on this. also we only have the 1 trees and woodlands dept which then gets contracted out to other dept like highways schools etc. so id call trees and woodlands 1st bud

Edited June 23, 2012 by Dan Earp
added

[Andy Collins]

We all know the correct answer, and so do they. Report it to the relevant management for future attention, making it clear that they have the duty of care for their staff on site, and you have a duty to reinforce this out on site under H&S Act. how would they get on if the H&S officer came along?

[Mikelawn]

Council = law to them selves

[Dan Earp]

Council = law to them selves

 

to the councils that arent run properly.

[likeitorlumpit]

We all know the correct answer, and so do they. Report it to the relevant management for future attention, making it clear that they have the duty of care for their staff on site, and you have a duty to reinforce this out on site under H&S Act. how would they get on if the H&S officer came along?

 

Thats the correct answer Andy but what do you do at the time?

And in the circumstance.

I suspect the correct answer is to refuse to continue working unless they comply. If they continue then phone their manager.

It's a sad world that leaves us only this one option.

Once upon a time we'd have just cracked on and even gone for a pint with the guys.

[wildewood]

First truck from highways team turns up with 7 year old son in the cab, but no road closed signs, adding to the chaos. I had no right to turn them away really, and didn't want to, just wanted them to work safely. One stated, despite using chainsaw and chipper, that as there were no 'overhead obstructions' he didn't need a hard hat.Maybe he hadn't seen the three hung up trees above him.

No, they didn't help me earn any more as I am responsible for the Estate's trees. This tree was on the public highway, and after asking the council 'crew' to don PPE one of them went to load the tracked chipper and leave, and was only stopped by (yet another) council bod who had turned up. I asked him to clarify that because I had asked for PPE to be worn, having responsibilty for everyones safety on site, as we all do, he was refusing to clear the obstruction on the highway? I could of course have left them to it, but had no faith in their abilities having seen them work over the years.

As you say, the options for contact are varied, hence the question 'what would you do...!