Newbies and start-ups

[Tom10]

Arbtalk is a valuable asset to any newbie to this industry, anyone looking to change career, and startup businesses looking for advice.

 

Occasion after occasion I seem to read members on here posting legitimate questions such as a name for their new business or advice on where to get trained, colleges to attend or gear to buy and the same old replies which house no relevance to their question.

 

...Dont buy any gear. You'll get no work. Market flooded. Look to do something else etc etc...

 

I agree - colleges churn out a lot of guys thinking this industry is a walk in the park - perhaps what we fail to realise is half of these people wont hack the industry and will fall back on another career or re-train. The ones who stick with it, have a good work ethic and are talented and efficient can, and will get work.

 

The people leaving such advice are more often than not very experienced arbs running successful businesses and not having to worry about how busy they're going to be tomorrow... so comments are easy to pass.

 

People new to this industry deserve sensible opinions. Maybe something like, its not easy at the moment, or dont expect to be busy day in day out until your business grows (as well as an industry expert answer to their actual question, after all thats why we use arbtalk dont we? advice from other arbs and to learn stuff). As opposed to a knock your confidence flippant comment.

 

I fear we may be upsetting and demoralising potentially very good newcomers to the industry.

 

No one works forever and there's plenty of people getting past the age where they want to climb, there's plenty of people who have an awful lot of work on who would rather pay a lad a fair wage to do a job they dont want to do.

 

It is more important that we give honest advice but also give these guys a pat on the back for at least trying to enter an industry that we all love.

 

The chaps (and chapettes) that have a good solid business plan and a strong work ethic can happily succeed. Most may still be living at home and may only need to make enough money for basic equipment, a bit of rent for mum and dad, a vehicle and public liability. Well a few days a month at a sensible wage will see that through if thought out well.

 

Every county has busy contractors and putting your name around these guys and showing a real good days work when offered will see you invited back. Who on here wouldn't have a hard working young lad for £60 - £80 quid a day when there's a busy job on? Most of them can drag brash faster than us and will soon pick up skills to become more and more valuable to a company.

 

A good contact in the industry can soon lead to a couple of days work a week which could be ample for you to be able to start a successful business. Lets also not forget organisations like the Princes Trust who offer financial help and planning for start-ups and people with unfortunate backgrounds / unemployment etc.

 

If they are 40 years old with 2 kids and a mortgage I agree things will be more difficult. But more strategic financial planning, with a plan B, and a Mrs with a decent income should see that they at least give it a go.

 

Without a good business plan, and without a good work ethic and attitude they will surely fail.

 

However, tree's still grow in a recession and we need young lads to come through to replace outgoing workers. Though I agree its very difficult and its a case of sorting wheat from chaff - Maybe all shouldn't be tarnished with the same brush.

 

Tom (whos visit home for some toast has gone on far too long - back off to work)

Edited April 11, 2012 by Tom10

[kinojango]

This is so true, I found it VERY difficult to get in to this game because of the low wages.

 

I did it for around 2 years and found I could not survive on the income so I came out of it about 2 1/2 years ago but I am missing it very much and looking to get in to it again.

[martwizz]

Thanks for reintroducing a bit of confidence, seeing alot of people who have been reccomending not to bother had started to sow the seeds of doubt. This certainly applied to me as although i've been working in the industry a while, going freelance almost starts like starting from scratch sometimes!

 

I see no reason why anybody who works hard and is enthusiastic shouldnt manage to succeed; especially if they put their heart into it.

[Dean Lofthouse]

I think the problem here is people entering the industry by setting up a business and expecting it to work from the word go.

It took about 8 years for work to come in reliably enough to employ someone full time and even then I sometimes didn't and don't draw a wage, don't get holiday pay or sick pay and have to work an average of 75 hours a week.

 

Facts are facts, I don't see why the truth should be glossed over. If you want to be employed in this job then wages aren't great, so don't invest in loads of expensive tackle. If you want to be self employed, I would say freelancing would be the best avenue, if you want to be in charge of your own destiny expect to put in huge amounts of time, money and expect crap wages for the time you put in.

last week I put in 85 hours. Glossing over this is very counter productive and leads to false expectations and disappointment.

If I had my time again I certainly would not choose tree work to set up a business, free lance yes but running the show? Forget it

[martwizz]

I do agree that its ok to... discourage (for lack of a better word) the guys who think they are ready to buy a truck/chipper as soon as they have finished their tickets. Its a bit mad.

[Mark Bolam]

Wise words.

 

More people chasing the same amount of work drives prices and standards down.

 

It's tough out there at the mo for established companies who know what they're doing.

 

Lads still living at home doing jobs for beer money are damaging the industry.

[Mozza]

Wise words.

 

More people chasing the same amount of work drives prices and standards down.

 

It's tough out there at the mo for established companies who know what they're doing.

 

Lads still living at home doing jobs for beer money are damaging the industry.

 

You an Dean are spot on mate!!

[Tom10]

Couldnt agree more with Dean, Mark and Mozza

 

Dean: I made an absolute clear point that hard work is the only avenue when starting out - its only a select few that will have the mental and physical capacity to work as hard as you have to, to make a success of a business, whether freelancing or whatever. My point is, we dont know which of these lads have that attitude without them having the chance to prove it.

 

Mark: Agree - companies charging down prices helps no-one. Were in a specialist industry and should demand specialist prices. The issue is however ''lads beer money'' is all they're worth, especially when subbying to a company. So on that thought process all lads should be worth what me or you might want to earn in a day? Thats not cricket either. I think the lesson is when going self employed and pricing their own jobs they need to be competing and knowing they're money, not undercutting because they can afford to.

 

No matter which way anyone looks at it we need fresh faces in the industry, and whether we have too m,any being churned out of college is another issue. What we do need to do is respect their goals and ambitions until they prove otherwise. Everyone reading this with a successful business started somewhere.......

 

Interesting thread.

[Mark Bolam]

Of course the industry needs young blood, we'd be knackered without it.

 

BUT we need young blood who aren't afraid to start at the bottom and serve their time.

 

There are an unbelievable amount of threads by people wanting to start up with virtually no experience at all because they can't find a job.

 

Say there is a small/medium dismantle worth £400/£500 commercially.

 

Young Joe and his mate borrow dads van, tip all the waste in his uncles field and split £250 between them, and go back to the nice tea mum has cooked feeling like heroes.

 

What young Joe doesn't realise is that he is actually taking a big smelly dump is his own nest by devaluing the industry that he one day hopes will provide him with a decent living.

 

Him and his mate might have worked very hard that day, and very efficiently, but they now have everyone in the village thinking a two man team is worth £250/day.

 

People need to realise when you price a job there is slightly more to it than wages.

 

On the plus side, youngsters with the grit, skill, sense and determination to get through these tough times should be smiling if they make it through them!

[Tom10]

Completely agree on all points. We just dont know who these gritty skillful sensible and determined youngsters are without giving them a chance, and putting them down while they're just asking questions is aimless - This isnt aimed at anyone specific, just comments I have noticed when on the forum.

 

Tom.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Tom10