Gang members hard ?

[easy-lift guy]

because society doesn't give a toss about them.........

 

Society is not in the baby sitting business. Choices are made every day good or bad, if one makes enough bad choices sooner or later it catches up with you. Same thing with good choices!. If you choose to not learn from making bad choices that is also a choice. If one chooses to remain in a holding pattern and blame society for not caring enough or at all that is up to that person, not society.

easy-lift guy

[skyhuck]

because society doesn't give a toss about them.........

 

People like you creat the problem, you constantly make excuses for peoples actions.

 

People need to take personal responsibly for their actions.

 

People make excuses for being fat, for being alcoholics, for have to much debt, for smoking, for being dishonest, etc, etc, etc.

 

Life is harder for some than others, some get a better start than others, but thats just life, regardless of how your brought up you know the difference between right and wrong, just seal from a crook of beat a violent man, they soon get upset and they know exactly how their victims feel.

 

I have no interest in making excuses, people should be held to account, if not where does it end, you blame the parents for the kids, but what about the parents parents and their parent?? where does it end???

 

And as for blaming society, we are all society, including those kids, so they are still responsible. Plus we are not allowed to intervene, if we do we get locked up, so how can it be our fault.

[LancsMike]

To be fair though, it's easy to hark back to yester-year and think times were better, there's always been scumbags in every generation, back in World War 2 there was a good amount of vile people who raped women during the Blitz, houses were looted while others were helping put out fires and so on but in History people would rather forget that [ Been a few documentaries on Discovery and History channel about it ]

 

Plus go a step further than that, it's a bit of an English trait to complain about '' how bad things are '' and maybe you're right because you're living around it so you're going to feel more strongly about it Dean, but take a step back and look at how Law and Order is maintained even in extreme crisis compared to other countries. I think Andy Collins said it a few posts back or pages back relating to that. Overall the scumbags are few in number compared to the vast majority of law abiding, hard working people just the Media would rather you believe it's worse than it is, combine that with your own experience and you build up a scenario in your head that it's all going to Hell fast.

 

Personally I'm quite happy living in England, go to somewhere like Bosnia and theres still armed Gangs or Chetniks as they are called roaming around the countryside, villages and towns still raping, looting and doing '' Ethnic cleansing '' when really they are just Armed thugs, worst one of the bunch being this man ?eljko Ra?natovi? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Bit of perspective always helps

[Dean Lofthouse]

We was brought up by my mother on the roughest council estate in halifax. My father used to beat the shite out of her when he came in pished every night, I as a small child used to witness this and try to stop him. He abused my sister. My mother remarried and this one took a liking to beating the shite out of me and my brother any time he felt the need.

We used to go to the butchers and ask for roll ends and bones for the dog and make soup and stew for us with them. We very rarely got Xmas presents

She made ends meet in whatever way she could. We were poor, under nourished and wore second hand clothes and shoes.

None of my brothers or my sister have ever beat anyone up, we have never robbed anyone nor stole from anyone or disrespected my elders.

I got 3 month in an army prison for standing up to what I thought was wrong. I got sentenced to 9 month in a civilian prison because I stopped police officers beating up an innocent person.

I,ve seen about as much and experience the worst things that can be thrown at someone but all that did is make the distance between wrong and right much wider. I would stand by the side of someone and defend them with whatever it takes.

 

Why is this?

Why am I nor my siblings thieves or bullies?

I,ve been there done that and got the t shirt. People choose their own path on life It has nothing to do with the social system or how they have been neglected by the social system.

Some people who make policies and make remarks, simply have no idea and have led a very sheltered life.

I can guarantee there will be arbtalk members on here that have had twice as rough an upbringing as me that have not chose the wrong path in life.

My original point is, it doesn't matter what era we are from, the fact is, gun crime, knife crime and gangs are becoming so frequent it is worrying and the fact that these kids value someone's life no more than a badge of honour is even more sickening.

 

What I find even more sickening is people trying to justify it

 

 

Sent from my iPhone cos it was

[David Goss]

We was brought up by my mother on the roughest council estate in halifax. My father used to beat the shite out of her when he came in pished every night, I as a small child used to witness this and try to stop him. He abused my sister. My mother remarried and this one took a liking to beating the shite out of me and my brother any time he felt the need.

We used to go to the butchers and ask for roll ends and bones for the dog and make soup and stew for us with them. We very rarely got Xmas presents

She made ends meet in whatever way she could. We were poor, under nourished and wore second hand clothes and shoes.

None of my brothers or my sister have ever beat anyone up, we have never robbed anyone nor stole from anyone or disrespected my elders.

I got 3 month in an army prison for standing up to what I thought was wrong. I got sentenced to 9 month in a civilian prison because I stopped police officers beating up an innocent person.

I,ve seen about as much and experience the worst things that can be thrown at someone but all that did is make the distance between wrong and right much wider. I would stand by the side of someone and defend them with whatever it takes.

 

Why is this?

Why am I nor my siblings thieves or bullies?

I,ve been there done that and got the t shirt. People choose their own path on life It has nothing to do with the social system or how they have been neglected by the social system.

Some people who make policies and make remarks, simply have no idea and have led a very sheltered life.

I can guarantee there will be arbtalk members on here that have had twice as rough an upbringing as me that have not chose the wrong path in life.

My original point is, it doesn't matter what era we are from, the fact is, gun crime, knife crime and gangs are becoming so frequent it is worrying and the fact that these kids value someone's life no more than a badge of honour is even more sickening.

 

What I find even more sickening is people trying to justify it

 

 

Sent from my iPhone cos it was

 

another comment worthy of a clap.

Tell you what dean I had it rough in my home town but you just took the biscuit! Hats off to you.

[Andy Collins]

Dean, that brought a tear to my eye, I think our generation did have it tougher than the current one. Clothes now are relatively cheaper, food is relatively cheaper. Schools are better, and in general the facilities for all are better. Yet still kids fall by the wayside, tempted to the "Dark side" for whatever reason. I am no saint, I have not been perfect, but I did see myself duplicating the worst of others at one point, and I stopped myself. I didn't need saving by religion, or anything else, but I have a good and strong wife who deserved better, and got it in me eventually, I just had to grow up a bit first.

Kids aren't generally evil, though how they are treated can form how they develop and manifest itself in them later in adult life. They just need the correct form of guidance, somehow, but I don't know the answers.

[LancsMike]

Which is all very commendable Dean and fair play you turned out alright and your kids have too, but not everyone is made of the same stuff, some people do end up falling by the wayside so to speak and some people are just plain nasty/evil pieces of work from the get go, I'm not and never have justified their behaviour all I argue is for people to look at the bigger picture.

 

Crime has always been around since the first caveman robbed food from another. The only difference is these days the media would rather you believe it is getting worse when in reality it isn't, it just gets covered more because that is how the 21st Century is.

 

As for how the system operates, thats a whole other debate and in your view it doesn't factor in but thats just your own opinion. There are far too many variables and reasoning's out there to put it down to one single thing but that's what education and life teaches any one of us - theres alway's more than one side to a story or as an older thread with what Skyhuck put, theres his truth, your truth and the real truth. Hearing about scumbags in the news doing over some innocent person is just one truth - case in point being Trayvon Martin in America at the moment, one side of the story says he was a good kid and the Security Guard was a nutball and Old photographs were used [ over 3 years old at that ]

 

Whereas the current day photographs paint another picture -

 

So which story is true ? who was the thug and who was the good guy ?

 

There is always more to a story.

Edited March 31, 2012 by LancsMike

[Stephen Blair]

That's terrifying how the 2 pictures tell such a different story!

[David Goss]

That's true about 2 sides to every story but its not really going with the thread. Dean is talking from personal experience an how you as an individual make your own destiny. These gang Kids choose to be thugs, they are (in most cases) not told by their parents to go beat up a granny or steal your chainsaw, it's their own personal decision to do these things. As it was my decision not to become like my childhood friends. I think this is the point that Dean was making.

[MattyF]

Some of the Kids I have met on some rough estate's have been sent out by the mothers to ask us if we want to buy drugs... The dirty slags would probably sell them or them selfs if you offered them cash , these kids ain't got a chance! These are the hard little barstards that will shoot you.