council competing against us! disgusting!

[rammer]

If they were that good, they wouldnt be working for the council. Sorry - but the best dont chose to work for big companies where they are only ever going to earn a set reasonably low amount.

 

I'm quite offended by your words.I work for LA,i don't have brew and fag every 5

mins,don't do private work,get a pretty good wage and i'm an experienced,skilled climber[if i do say myself]

 

Don't tar me with the same brush as LA workers you know of.

[timberbear]

Well, Cardiff Council have just taken on two very good arbourists from the private sector. They pay well, all the kit is provided and the hours good. They now form part of a small but very good team, who have attracted some good extra staff who can compete with anyone in the private sector. The problem with local authorities is they can't invest in new heavy duty kit and are shackled buy all the rules and regs that come with such a big set up and have never been allowed to compete for outside work. But this is all changing. The days of shovel leaning is over. Monmouthshire council are winning contracts all over south Wales for grounds maintenance. A lot of old managers are gone and the new ones are employed to run there teams more on a business basis. Cardiff parks department have lost two million pounds in funding over the last few years, if making money keeps our council tax down and extra income keeps services ago then so be it.

[Andy Collins]

I find it quite offensive that some see fit to slate one another on a public forum that I help to run, just because of who their employer happens to be. At the end of the day, we are all in the same boat. I do not care if you are council employed, self-employed, privately employed, youre lucky not to be unemployed in this day and age. Its about time some got off their high horses and looked at how they lead their own lives, before sniping at others.

[APC]

Let me tell you another incident, I have a friend who works as an arb for the Local council, who frequently falls asleep in the afternoon waking up late and books it as overtime when hes late going back to the yard due to an over sleep- he is truly a lazy git

 

 

Yeah? And I know someone who goes to work for a private contractor hanging from necking handfuls of (recreational) vallies the night before and then smokes spliff after spliff all day. I don't tar private sector because of him, don't tar LA's because of the waster who you know.

[Tom D]

This thread has degenerated somewhat into a bit of an ugly slagging match. It is totally unfair to say that one lot is lazy or their standard of work is poor...

 

I am against state funded organisations competing with the private sector on principle. We have to ask ourselves; what is the state for? it it there to provide a public service? or to create employment for all?

 

The business plan of the LA tree team just doesn't add up...

 

The question of state sponsored workers taking on private jobs is never going to be fair simply because it is impossible for an LA to quote for a private job and still take into account the true cost of running their organisation. The way that budgets are organised within LA's are so complicated that it is impossible to put a real cost on the overheads of an LA tree team. They have annual budgets, capital expenditure budgets, revenue expenditure budgets and they have a whole organisation behind them including, procurement, HR, Legal, Admin etc and to complicate things even further chances are the "tree team" will probably be part of another organisation like parks maintenance or cemeteries. Trying to separate out the costs for the tree team in this scenario would require a team of skilled auditors.

 

The upshot of this is that when an LA quote for private work there is no way they can guarantee that no public money is subsidising the job. In urban areas they will have yards with good security in locations that the average tree firm could never afford to rent or buy. They may share this yard with another council department, ( my nearest council depot shares roads and parks) how can the costs of owning running and maintaining these spaces be divided between different departments within the council? are these reflected in their private rates? I doubt it. ANd the huge cost of the pensions that these guys get?

That will come from centric council / government coffers and will never appear on the teams budget.... If any of you LA guys know otherwise please let us know...

 

The only way this could be done fairly is if the Department in question was given no budget at all, and I mean none! They would pay rent on their yard at market rate have their own admin, HR, Legal etc and pay their own staff pension contributions. All council works however large or small would be put out to tender and everyone would have a chance of bidding for the work. Some councils already claim to do this, but in reality when you take into account the great yard space they get and the free dump sites all over town and the staff pensions, admin etc etc they are in fact still sponsored by the state.

 

 

and for that reason I'M OUT....

[Andy Collins]

Thanks Tom, a reasoned argument well thought out and well put across.....at last! There is hope after all

[eddthesawman]

i think you need to know all the ins and outs of these situations before passing judgements. i'm not suprised people are using the council because they have screwd over by one man band too often. all my love x

[samthescam]

Haha your a fool if you think council teams are all lazy & unproductive, employing poor staff. The wages are usually compativley good, conditions excellent, kit first class thus attracting the better climbers & tree workers.

 

Your either crap at your job, and need to live in a dream world to excuse the fact that you arnt getting enough work, or you work for the council.

 

I didn't say they were all lazy and unproductive... I said they take lots of breaks, breaks that I would take if it made no difference to my life.

 

The wages maybe comparitively good compared to what you earn, but I couldnt live on them. Your right the conditions are excellent, no one is going to get too upset if you have a lazy day, and you get payed if you don't turn up cos you have a headache.

 

And as for attracting the better climbers and tree workers... Well maybe you watch the skills they possess in awe, but I can assure you that most people dont. People at the top of there game generally want to make lots of money out of it, not kill themselves each day so the council can give them gold stars.

Edited February 24, 2012 by samthescam

[Matthew Arnold]

The team i work in is made up of 5 paid employees and atleast 14 volunteers (of which i am 1). Because there are so many of us and we have 3 four seater vans we can go out in seperate teams and do different things. Our work turnover is always very high because of our volunteers. It really annoys me when someone tars all council workers with the same brush because they saw someone sleeping on their tea break. Our highways dept guys start work at 6.30 am and don't finish until 4pm. And they are on 24 hour callout as are the tree team. At times we will all pull together and work as 1 big team to get a job done (eg. Main trunk road was blocked by 16 fallen trees during the january winds. Road was clear within 90 minutes).

[john p]

Your either crap at your job, and need to live in a dream world to excuse the fact that you arnt getting enough work, or you work for the council.

 

I didn't say they were all lazy and unproductive... I said they take lots of breaks, breaks that I would take if it made no difference to my life.

 

The wages maybe comparitively good compared to what you earn, but I couldnt live on them. Your right the conditions are excellent, no one is going to get too upset if you have a lazy day, and you get payed if you don't turn up cos you have a headache.

 

And as for attracting the better climbers and tree workers... Well maybe you watch the skills they possess in awe, but I can assure you that most people dont. People at the top of there game generally want to make lots of money out of it, not kill themselves each day so the council can give them gold stars.

 

good call mods