Co-dependancy

[Dean Lofthouse]

About 3 years ago I posted on another forum a thread describing how, after taking down a 100ft Black Poplar, the two trees either side, within two weeks or so, shed their leaves and died back to a point now where they are staghorned.

 

These two trees were mature Sycamores. We have various suggestions from Carbon monoxide poisoning from the saws to sun scorch. There was no real definitive answer. I was pondering at the time whether it was possible for the root systems to become co-dependant.

 

It suddenly dawned on me today when I was sat on the poplar stump having a brew!

 

The soil is a clay soil and is quite waterlogged. Could it be that in a way they were co-dependant in the sense that the poplar was removing large quantites of water from the soil and when it was felled this suddenly stopped, the root systems of the other trees then became water logged.

 

It bothered me in the fact that if is was a private job and not my own trees I was felling the customer may be asking for compensation for killing off his trees.

 

Has anyone else come across this senario before, it is worth noting if you are taking down a very large tree within a clay soil area with neighbouring trees

[David Humphries]

Those Darn Roots, eh !

 

So much more we need to learn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting post Deano

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[Albedo]

Just thinking aloud and following on from your train of thought Dean. As you will know removing big trees, on clay soil can cause heave.

 

This expansion of the soil - could it affect soil structure?? i.e less air spaces.

 

Less air in the soil thru either increased water logging as you suggest or above theory of soil structure could have the effect you decribe.

 

thru creation of anaerobic conditions.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Albedo
anaerobic comment

[Dean Lofthouse]

That appears to be what has happened Paul.

 

Worth thinking about when quoting to take a tree down, you could then cover your rear when quoting.

 

Have had many a great mind contemplating what happened, one even suggested they died of a lonely heart because they had existed together for so long

[stevelucocq]

I remember reading some where that when sycamores become mature then the effects of water logging can have more of an effect and cause them to die. My feeling is that the poplar was drawing a large amount of water from the ground around the sycamore roots and keeping important airspaces present in the soil structure. When the poplar was felled this huge draw of water that the poplar would take up would stop and then upset the balance. This then would significantly reduce the amount of air spaces that would then give problems to the other trees. But i do like the idea of co-dependancy in the roots.

[josharb87]

stupid question, but were the poplar stumps poisoned dean?

[Dean Lofthouse]

stupid question, but were the poplar stumps poisoned dean?

 

No Josh, just left it as it was

[Albedo]

Def worth bearing in mind that this could happen, I would have only considered poss effect on buildings, not on other trees. It was much easier when I was subbing and this was someone elses responsibility.

 

Although the combination of taking that responsibility, and the amazing resource for info that arbtalk is, has made the job interesting again.

 

I prefer the broken heart theory myself, will probably use it when quoting.

[Mesterh]

Interesting stuff

I'd go with the water logging scenario myself.

As for the air spaces do you get air spaces in soil when it hasnt been messed about with?

Or are these air spaces minute things that you cant really see?

[stevelucocq]

Sorry just reread your first mail and I thought you ment that the poplar was drawing water for the other trees!.....sorry in a rush, must slow down....ditto