Protecting conifers from roe deer

[Capreolus Capreolus]

Hello

 

I am planting a hectare of woodland comprising braodleaves and conifers which are to be planted as an intimate mixture. Being in North East Scotland, where there are more than a few deer now, the broadleves will be protected by 1.2m tree shelters. Any suggestions as to how to best protect Norway Spruce and Scots pine within the woodland. Would 0.6m mesh guards be adequate to allow establishment? Or would i chance leaving them unprotected and hope the deer dont notice them!!

 

Any comments much appreciated

 

I offer my opinion based on many years of wildlife control based around Plantings of Norwegian spruce in blanket situation and re generation areas.

 

You would be correct in protecting broadleaf saplings with 1.2m tree guards especially were Roe deer are present, obviously if red deer or sikka are present you would need guards of a greater height.

 

It would be a pointles excercise, as well as being costly in providing 0.6 guards on Norwegian spruce and Scots pine in my view.

 

As you are aware deer browse of the growing tips of all species of trees, however Spruce and Scots Pine are far from being their main source of food.

 

I have seen numerous times where damage to growing saplings has been directly accountable to voles especially in times of endemic proportions.

 

I am not saying roe deer do not browse sikka spruce because they do, but certain habitat methods can be employed in reducing damage to growing saplings.

 

More deer glades can be created were more fescues suitable to the deer can be planted, and if these are created in areas of the best suitable soil type, deer will frequent these areas more often to feed these areas and can be used as culling zones by proficient and competant deer stalkers with high velocity rifles.

 

If the deer can be encouraged into these cull zones and numbers controlled then the saplings get away quickly without to much loss , but everything needs to be in place for it to work in a proficient controlable manner..

 

Should you require further assistance or advice in respect to deer management please feel free to contact me anytime at [email protected]

Cheers

Stuart

Edited January 30, 2012 by Capreolus Capreolus

[Arctostaphylos uva-ursi]

I'm not saying they all fall over, but confiers in Tubes 1.2m are a risk. Iv'e seen it time and time again. However, most of my experience is in upland areas.

 

I would never put a conifer in a tube! I think you are getting your wires crossed. I have used the large mesh guards with success in the NE of Scotland.

[muldonach]

Hello

 

I am planting a hectare of woodland comprising braodleaves and conifers which are to be planted as an intimate mixture. Being in North East Scotland, where there are more than a few deer now, the broadleves will be protected by 1.2m tree shelters. Any suggestions as to how to best protect Norway Spruce and Scots pine within the woodland. Would 0.6m mesh guards be adequate to allow establishment? Or would i chance leaving them unprotected and hope the deer dont notice them!!

 

Any comments much appreciated

 

Norway spruce are the deer equivalent of Thortons Chocolates - they will smell them a mile away and call all thier pals in as well.

 

I can remember years ago being in a wood just outside Inverness where Norway had been interplanted with Pine in racks - the norway were bonsai, just one in an entire rack had got above the deer and we measured it at 65 feet - the rest were 2 foot tall and it was a long rack.

 

0.6m guards are no use whatever against deer, period.

 

The best way to protect a 1Ha plot is fencing, regularly checked.

 

Cheers

mac

[Capreolus Capreolus]

Norway spruce are the deer equivalent of Thortons Chocolates -

 

Norway spruce is not a roe deers food by choice as if other sources of food arnt present within their habitat they will only take the young fresh growing tips on the leaders thats why the trees become of a bonsai appearance.

Roe deer are selective browsers and if a food source was introduced they prefer in there habitat then they would leave such harsh food source alone,more consideration needs to be given in creating a more controlled environment when it comes to deer.

the situation can be helped in actually creating areas where deer come to feed on brambles wild rasberry,ivy, bog rose and succulent fescues that they would eat before any other food source.

If such effort was made by forresters incorperating the deers needs in the forest designation ,then culling zones can be created by bringing deer to controlled areas where the numbers can be controlled to accepted levels, unfortunatelly little is done in consideration to wildlife managment its all to do with obtaining grants and money or it has in the past.

Things are changing but not quick enough. they will smell them a mile away and call all thier pals in as well.

 

I can remember years ago being in a wood just outside Inverness where Norway had been interplanted with Pine in racks - the norway were bonsai, just one in an entire rack had got above the deer and we measured it at 65 feet - the rest were 2 foot tall and it was a long rack.

 

0.6m guards are no use whatever against deer, period.

 

The best way to protect a 1Ha plot is fencing, regularly checked.

 

Cheers

mac

 

 

Cheers Stuart

[daveindales]

I would never put a conifer in a tube! I think you are getting your wires crossed. I have used the large mesh guards with success in the NE of Scotland.

 

Yes, was confused. Have never used the large mesh guards

[muldonach]

Norway spruce is not a roe deers food by choice as if other sources of food arnt present within their habitat they will only take the young fresh growing tips on the leaders thats why the trees become of a bonsai appearance.

Roe deer are selective browsers and if a food source was introduced they prefer in there habitat then they would leave such harsh food source alone,more consideration needs to be given in creating a more controlled environment when it comes to deer.

the situation can be helped in actually creating areas where deer come to feed on brambles wild rasberry,ivy, bog rose and succulent fescues that they would eat before any other food source.

If such effort was made by forresters incorperating the deers needs in the forest designation ,then culling zones can be created by bringing deer to controlled areas where the numbers can be controlled to accepted levels, unfortunatelly little is done in consideration to wildlife managment its all to do with obtaining grants and money or it has in the past.

Things are changing but not quick enough

 

If I was establishing a deer lawn in a forest then Norway Spruce would be my conifer species of choice, and in my experience roe do not leave any planted conifers alone, it is a question of when, not if, they are browsed, particularly when planted in small plots in otherwise open ground.

 

The OP has sought advice on protecting a 1 Ha plot so his opportunity for diversionary planting is to say the least limited, and the amount of damage he can withstand very limited. Essentially he can chose between fencing, rifle or individual guards, on a plot of this size I would not advise reliance on culling.

 

If the conifers are left open planted then I would advise breaking with conventional wisdom and not weeding along rows - leave the grass etc to grow and restrict intervention to mowing between the rows.

 

Cheers

mac

[burnie]

Thanks for the constructive advice

 

0.6m shelters out of the question. As such i think i will do a bit of a trial.

 

Will randomly protect some in 1.2m mesh guards (pricey i know but useful to compare difference) with the remainder left unprotected- but with vegetation left between rows. Will keep a close eye on the unprotected ones and if significant damage occurs will opt for protection. Shouldnt take long to find out i guess!!!

 

Will keep you posted.

[Alycidon]

As above, good information. If your going to guard them 1.2m would be needed. You could also consider planting sacrificial trees to discourage them from the good ones.

 

Make sure you have an adequate deer management plan. Consider a WIGS grant as they will give you money to help with deer management plans, high seats and a stalker if required.

 

 

I stalk ( and shoot) deer as do a number of my friends, while northern scotland is a bit to far for me I am sure I could if required find a suitable insured guy ( or girl) to control excess deer at no cost but a 1 hectare plot is pretty small. Ideally the deer need to be controlled over a wider area.

 

A

Edited January 31, 2012 by Alycidon

[Alycidon]

Hello Geoff

Thanks for pointing me in direction of this thread of which I will give an honest opinion based on my years of experience within Deer management and wildlife Control.

 

cheers

stuart

 

 

Thanks Stu,

 

Geoff

[Capreolus Capreolus]

Norway spruce is not a roe deers food by choice as if other sources of food arnt present within their habitat they will only take the young fresh growing tips on the leaders thats why the trees become of a bonsai appearance.

Roe deer are selective browsers and if a food source was introduced they prefer in there habitat then they would leave such harsh food source alone,more consideration needs to be given in creating a more controlled environment when it comes to deer.

the situation can be helped in actually creating areas where deer come to feed on brambles wild rasberry,ivy, bog rose and succulent fescues that they would eat before any other food source.

If such effort was made by forresters incorperating the deers needs in the forest designation ,then culling zones can be created by bringing deer to controlled areas where the numbers can be controlled to accepted levels, unfortunatelly little is done in consideration to wildlife managment its all to do with obtaining grants and money or it has in the past.

Things are changing but not quick enough

 

If I was establishing a deer lawn in a forest then Norway Spruce would be my conifer species of choice, and in my experience roe do not leave any planted conifers alone, it is a question of when, not if, they are browsed, particularly when planted in small plots in otherwise open ground.

 

The OP has sought advice on protecting a 1 Ha plot so his opportunity for diversionary planting is to say the least limited, and the amount of damage he can withstand very limited. Essentially he can chose between fencing, rifle or individual guards, on a plot of this size I would not advise reliance on culling.

 

If the conifers are left open planted then I would advise breaking with conventional wisdom and not weeding along rows - leave the grass etc to grow and restrict intervention to mowing between the rows.

 

Cheers

mac

 

I accept your point of view to some extent especially as the area involved being planted is small but even so carefull wildlife planning can still be incorperated in its design which will help to control damage by deer.

 

Fencing is expensive even fencing in areas of this size costs a considerable outlay and probably non economic on return investment ,not knowing the nature of the particular situation i cant comment but fencing would need to be 2 mtrs high to stop deer getting in and as we all know when the winter conditions prevail and snow banks up these fences prove useless, and infact can trap deer in a compound environment, and if there are no open areas of possible control with a rifle they can do extreme browsing damage to the plantings because no other suitable food exists inside the block,even in areas where the trees are well underway some 2 meters get browsed, so in some circumstances fencing is not the answer. Especially in Scotland were adverse conditions exist.

Deer by their very nature are margin feeders/browsers especially roe deer.

 

kind Regards

Stu

Edited February 1, 2012 by Capreolus Capreolus