i,am confused about chainsaws

[agg221]

For me, age is rated by number of years since it was made, but that doesn't relate necessarily to usefulness.

 

If the numbers on them are to be believed, I have a 1994 066M, a 1980s 076, a 2000 044 and a 2001 026. I also have an 051 of mid-1970s vintage in bits, a Danarm DDA110 of 1950s-1960s vintage and will hopefully soon have a 2-man Teles of probably 1940s vintage.

 

All of the above are useful (well, will be when the ones currently not fixed have been so). However, they pass from 'regular use' to 'vintage' when I can no longer get spares which are likely to be needed to keep them running indefinitely. At that point, they become occasional use for pleasure. I wouldn't lug the Teles into the woods for example!

 

The other significant feature for me is safety features. I personally wouldn't want to use a saw without a chain brake for anything other than milling. I would also want decent AV. Noise I can live with - I wear proper ear defenders and don't work anywhere it will annoy the neighbours. Emissions/efficiency - well, I don't run enough tankfuls through to worry about it (and I use Aspen so it's not as bad as it could be).

 

Otherwise, as has already been said, it's efficiency (fuel or power) to weight that really improves, and sometimes reliability goes down as things get more complex and more plastic.

 

Personally, I would regard any pro saw from the 1990s onwards as viable for regular, professional use - assuming it hasn't been either abused or run so hard it's worn out. Pretty much the same as with cars really - a mid-1990s Volvo could have years of life in it, while a mistreated, thrashed one wouldn't be any use even if it only had 100k on the clock and a 500k mile example wouldn't be a good proposition, however well it had been serviced.

 

Alec

[luftwaffe]

Well I go through a 357 every 12 months, mind you it does about 1500 hours in that time of grinding hard work, after about 9 months i can really see the saw starting to go downhill, mainly loss of power, I then p/x it at 12 months for a new one, costs me about £275 to change.

 

Yes i know i could spend money on it to replace the worn parts, but i prefer to change for a new one.

[Al Smith]

GOSH THAT,S A GOOD AGE

 

You must of looked after them ??? & are they used regular etc ???? or is it a collection you have" .

The two I had made mention of being 35 years of age were my original two I used for about 9 years when I sold firewood .They get ran occasionaly but I have faster better saws I use more often .

 

The 50 year old antiques are collectors saws .A few are in fact nearly as fast as a modern saw but they are heavy .

[doobin]

Well I go through a 357 every 12 months, mind you it does about 1500 hours in that time of grinding hard work, after about 9 months i can really see the saw starting to go downhill, mainly loss of power, I then p/x it at 12 months for a new one, costs me about £275 to change.

 

Yes i know i could spend money on it to replace the worn parts, but i prefer to change for a new one.

 

Smart move

[predator]

Well i got a 2008 ms260 but after using a ms250 it feels really soft n squidgy as the mounts seem very soft or is it me use to the ms250 as that was solid so to speak i could feel every cutter working lol good saw though but the ms260 is a breed apart after using it but only time will tell i was told the ms250 only has a little oil pump and it was on a 18" bar so i thought it was,nt getting enough oil etc

 

when i got it the bar was blue etc but also the guy who had it thew it out the tree said it was rubbish etc on checking it over he had fitted the chain the wrong way lol he bust the chain brake and broke the rear air filter cover and cracked a lump of the rear handle not the saws fault in my book but moved on up now as i,ve read on here they make a good ground saw for chomping my firewood up

[predator]

Going to ask in this post please whats the differance ms341 compared to a ms361 is it fitted with a larger jet in the carb etc or as usual barking up the wrong tree its too late anyway as i,ve bought a 2010 model ms341 for larger tree logs etc i,ve fitted my old 20" bar n chain off my old 038 will it be ok ,ish for what i do for every now n then so to speak as it was running a 15" bar

Edited December 19, 2011 by predator

[predator]

going to ask in this post please whats the differance ms341 compared to a ms361 is it fitted with a larger jet in the carb etc or as usual barking up the wrong tree its too late anyway as i,ve bought a 2010 model ms341 for larger tree logs etc i,ve fitted my old 20" bar n chain off my old 038 will it be ok ,ish for what i do for every now n then so to speak as it was running a 15" bar

 

any comments please i would be greatful esp about ms341 compared to ms361

 

merry christmas to you and your familys too

[agg221]

Both the MS341 and MS361 are 59cc. The 341 is rated at 4.2hp, the 361 at 4.4hp. The slight uprating in power appears to have resulted in an increase in maximum recommended bar length from 18" to 20".

 

The easiest way to work out which parts are shared/different between two Stihl models is to google the parts lists and compare part numbers. If they match from the two manuals, the parts are shared.

 

With regard to running your 20" bar - you would have to be particularly incompetent to damage the saw by running it, so incompetent in fact that you would break it in other ways first.

 

Chainsaw powerheads generate a certain amount of power, as a torque vs. revs curve. In theory, this curve runs all the way from 0rpm up, but in practice below a certain revs threshold the clutch will just slip, and above a certain revs threshold the saw will overspeed, fail to lubricate sufficiently and melt the piston onto the barrel, causing it to seize. The highest torque (greatest power generated) is at lower revs than the maximum speed.

 

The above defines the limits in revs over which the saw will run. There's a much narrower window where it will run properly. The top end of the rev range is defined by the manufacturer - this should be when the saw is running at full throttle, with bar and chain fitted at the correct tension, with the chain not in contact with anything (i.e. not cutting). As the saw comes in contact with the wood, it slows down as more work is being done. The slowest you want it to run is at the peak of the power curve, when the whole bar is cutting under its own weight.

 

Running a powerhead with no bar attached defines the minimum load. Dragging chain round a bar puts more load on (i.e. torque). The longer the bar, the more work done in dragging the chain round. This causes the revs to drop, but within the manufacturer's bar length limits you can correct this by tuning (which is why you should tune for the bar length you're actually going to use). The other thing that makes a difference here is whether your bar is hard nosed or sprocket nosed. Sprockets use considerably less power, so the manufacturer's recommendation gives you bit of leeway if you're using a sprocket nosed one.

 

When the chain comes in contact with the wood, more work is done (cutting) so the revs drop. The more teeth in contact, the more work being done. When the whole bar is in contact with the wood, cutting under its own weight, the speed should drop to the point that corresponds to the maximum on the power curve.

 

So what does all the above mean?

Well, if you take a saw, and put a bar on it that's longer than the manufacturer recommends, firstly you need to tune it to lower maximum revs. Ideally you would tune by using the longest recommended bar, then just tweak up the idle so that it still picks up properly (this won't hurt it).

 

When cutting, if you put on a bar that's longer than recommended, it won't matter while you're not using the full length of the bar (in theory, up to about 90% of the recommended maximum bar length). When you start using the whole bar, you will have more load on the saw than it's designed for. The way to overcome this is to leave the rakers slightly long, so that the teeth aren't taking out quite so much per cut. The saw then doesn't work so hard.

 

So, as a rough guide (others may have different opinions on this!):

 

- You can go up to about 10% over length on the bar if you're using a sprocket nose, without making any changes other than proper tuning on the carb (although it won't hurt if you don't do this). As such, your 20" bar would be fine.

- You can run longer bars still if you recognise that you need to tune on a shorter bar (max. recommended length), then set the idle for the longer bar and leave the rakers a bit long so the saw doesn't bog down.

 

Well you did ask for comments!

 

Alec

[predator]

THANKS FOR THE HELPFULL INFO ALEC

 

it all helps you know as i never stop learning and you have now put to bed as me a hgv engineer etc often thought about people saying run at full revs when cutting but i dont and wont"

i give enough throttle to cut wood to save fuel and wear/stress on engine etc and less chance of a piston picking up as the saw dont run as hot .I also give my saw a free run to get the oil back into the chain as i cut a lot on dry logs for my firewood etc

[agg221]

THANKS FOR THE HELPFULL INFO ALEC

 

it all helps you know as i never stop learning and you have now put to bed as me a hgv engineer etc often thought about people saying run at full revs when cutting but i dont and wont"

i give enough throttle to cut wood to save fuel and wear/stress on engine etc and less chance of a piston picking up as the saw dont run as hot .I also give my saw a free run to get the oil back into the chain as i cut a lot on dry logs for my firewood etc

 

Be careful with this. Somewhat counter-intuitively, you're actually more likely to seize the saw this way than running it full throttle!

 

This is because there's a difference between throttle and revs. Starting from a saw running at full revs but not in contact with anything, you could drop the revs either by giving it less fuel (backing off the throttle) or by making it work harder (using the power to cut, rather than just drive the chain round). Being a 2-stroke, the engine is using the oil in the fuel as its lubricant. If you back off the throttle, you're decreasing the amount of fuel and hence running lean. Run the same revs at full throttle and, although the saw is working harder, it's running richer and hence better lubricated.

 

Doing it by ear, if the saw is properly set up, rev the saw up to full throttle as you're starting a cut very lightly, then increase the pressure on the cut very slowly and you'll hear the sound go from a 'clean' note to a slightly burbling sound, then back to clean again. Somewhere around that point is about the maximum point on the power curve. It really doesn't want much pressure to do this - if it's perfectly set up then full length of the bar, cutting under its own weight, is about right.

 

Alec