Dangers of top roping

[skyhuck]

So if the climber asks the groundie to let it run and the groundie doesn't, its still the climbers fault???

[scottythepinetree]

They were both at fault in my opinion. Groundy should have let it run, climber should have checked the tension on the rope. The climber should also have the guts to dictate how big a piece he is taking... it's his neck on the block ultimately.

[Tom D]

If it was slung differently or they guy filming was on a tag line it could have been avoided, but the groundsman was ultimatley to blame. As soon as that piece started swinging he should have dropped it a few feet, but he didn't. Responding to things like that's the sort of thing that makes a good groundy If it had run out a bit it would have lost some momentum and might not have gone so far. Sounds like the groundsman was running the show too. Hope they learnt something.

 

I think the problem is, without adequate pretensioning if the groundie allows it to run before the butt is cleared of the stump the top will drop till the piece is horizontal. Then the butt falls off the stub and swings down causing a big shock load. Shock loading with big lumps is not good. With that in mind the groundie was right not to let it run until the butt was clear.

 

On conclusion I'd say the fault lies in using the wrong method for the equipment being used.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Tom D

[skyhuck]

I think the problem is, without adequate pretensioning if the groundie allows it to run before the butt is cleared of the stump the top will drop till the piece is horizontal. Then the butt falls off the stub and swings down causing a big shock load. Shock loading with big lumps is not good.

 

It was clear of the butt before it started swinging.

[gibbon]

I can't see how pre tensioning the line would have made any difference there. The lump should have been gently galling away, it doesn't look like they were trying to lift it back towards the pulley

[Le Sanglier]

So if the climber asks the groundie to let it run and the groundie doesn't, its still the climbers fault???

 

Wel,l yes take your point. And I suppose you are right; However letting it run is a difficult skill, takes confidence and experience. Too many wraps and it won't work, too little and well, you know, best done by an ex-climber.

I guess as a sole trader with a groundy who does not like the tricky stuff, I assume all responsibilty, normally lowering the sections myself off a purpose cut stub.

I pay for all damage so everything is my fault.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Le Sanglier

[Robert_S]

Groundie should have seen what was happening and let it go, better a broken fence than a broken head!!

Another thing for me is I never liked the portawrap you can never get enough tension on the rope for top roping far better with a bollard or just chug the stem down.

Hope the guy was ok though

[gibbon]

I wrote that before I read your reply tom. How the lump.fall off the stump depends on the climbers cut ( have you learnt nothing from radios videos). Regardless of your cut a good groundy can limit the crash against the stem by controlling the speed it falls. Well mine can.

[skyhuck]

Groundie should have seen what was happening and let it go, better a broken fence than a broken head!!

Another thing for me is I never liked the portawrap you can never get enough tension on the rope for top roping far better with a bollard or just chug the stem down.

Hope the guy was ok though

 

[Tom D]

Just watched it again with the laptop on its side, you're right, I hadn't looked closely enough, the groundie does let it go before the butt is clear, enough that when the butt drops off it causes the piece to swing. The top appears to move towards the camera thus meaning that when the butt comes free it is whipped right round the back of the stem, hitting the climber. In that situation where the rigging point is low in relation to the top of the lump, I would have either put a shallow gob aimed towards the pulley and used the hobbs to pull the tip in till it was up against the other stem. Then sever the hinge and it swings away from yours the groundie lets it run. Or done the same with a step cut, with a shallow cut on the side of the pulley and the main cut coming all the way through the back.