day rate

[Peter]

Ok, so £840 a week for your 2 man team.

 

As I said, the only firm that paid me £400 a week was charging 720 a day, 3600 per week. That leaves 2760 per week for overheads, kit, saws, vehicles, breakages, and profit.

 

Obviously you wont be paying anyone 20k pa if you cant command the appropriate day rate, for whatever reason.

 

For me, I dont want to do the kind of intensive hard climbing and groundwork over 40 plus hours per week that i was doing for anything less than £20k pa.

 

I pay people what they are worth, i charge my customers what the job is worth, and unless there is enough of a difference between the two figures, i wont bother!

[tockmal]

I charge £850 + VAT for 2 men and kit per day

 

Good price.

[Dean Lofthouse]

I think sometimes it isn't worth the hassle of employing more than one person and having loads of tackle or two sets of tackle.

 

You end up working seven days a week, long hours to earn the same profit margin as you would on your own with a groundsman.

 

I work mon, tues, and wed, sometimes maybe thursday, pricing and maintenance on friday.

 

Lot easier life for probably not much less profit

[Peter]

Lot easier life for probably not much less profit

 

Most excellent philosophy.

[jpbeaver]

as i always say do less charge more!

[igottacabstar]

Well this thread has certainly been a bit of an eye opener! Down here in Cornwall I can sub in a very good, experienced climber who will do any tree job for £85-£100 per day - and that's with his own 200T + fuel and climbing gear! I then do the ground work using my truck, chipper, big saws and yard and charge the customer around £220-£300 depending on how difficult the job is. Tree firms round here generally consist of the owner plus 1-3 staff (some employed, some subbies) and would generally charge between £200 - £300 per day for 2 men plus truck and chipper - it's all people are willing to pay! Self employed groundsmen get about £55-£60 per day (£70 if lucky) and climbers would be looking at around £80-£100 per day (£120 if lucky). Personally, if I can make £150 - £200 per day for myself after paying wages then I think that's pretty okay! I know I've got lots of overheads to pay plus around 40 grands worth of kit that I've bought, but it's all paid for and I own my own yard. If tree firms in Cornwall started asking for £600-£1000 per day for 2 men plus a truck and chipper I can guarantee that no one would have any work - ever! Still, perhaps that's just Cornwall?

[Dean Lofthouse]

If tree firms in Cornwall started asking for £600-£1000 per day for 2 men plus a truck and chipper I can guarantee that no one would have any work - ever! Still, perhaps that's just Cornwall?

 

Thats the beauty of getting to know your neighbours, so to speak. Tree surgeons round here don't snub each other, we stop and talk when we can and all get on. Like I said earlier, we even have a xmas do.

 

In general we do not undercut each other, nor do we charge silly prices. I work three to four days a week and try to acheive £400 per day, that is the minimum I can charge to cover basic over heads.

 

You should be allowing around £30 per hours running on your chipper, which would do, if you stack your brash, 1 -2 hours a day.

 

I worked mine out this way.

 

Chipper cost £18000, I would want to replace it at 1000 hrs thats £18 per hour. I would estimate general servicing at £2 per hour. Blades (with numpty groundsmen) £5 per hour and then your diesel.

 

Thats just your chipper.

 

Then sit down and work out:

 

Your vehicle, public liability, climbing gear, trousers, boots, saws, chains, bars, log splitter, vehicle diesel, insurance, tax, mot, national insurance and 22% income tax.

 

These costs are the same whatever part of the country your llive.

 

One person undercharging can have a ripple effect.

 

How you put yourself across to your potentail customer can also have an effect. So many tradesmen come across as patranising and know it all.

 

I let the customer tell you they want their tree cutting off just above the main stem to allow more light in and then explain to them gently what problems are associated with doing that and have they thought of....

 

You can win so many jobs this way despite being slightly more expensive than "Dave the drystone waller, come fencer, come flagger, come landscaper, come tree lopper, come grass mower, come part time fireman.

[18 stoner]

Thats the beauty of getting to know your neighbours, so to speak. Tree surgeons round here don't snub each other, we stop and talk when we can and all get on. Like I said earlier, we even have a xmas do.

 

In general we do not undercut each other, nor do we charge silly prices. I work three to four days a week and try to acheive £400 per day, that is the minimum I can charge to cover basic over heads.

 

You should be allowing around £30 per hours running on your chipper, which would do, if you stack your brash, 1 -2 hours a day.

 

I worked mine out this way.

 

Chipper cost £18000, I would want to replace it at 1000 hrs thats £18 per hour. I would estimate general servicing at £2 per hour. Blades (with numpty groundsmen) £5 per hour and then your diesel.

 

Thats just your chipper.

 

Then sit down and work out:

 

Your vehicle, public liability, climbing gear, trousers, boots, saws, chains, bars, log splitter, vehicle diesel, insurance, tax, mot, national insurance and 22% income tax.

 

These costs are the same whatever part of the country your llive.

 

One person undercharging can have a ripple effect.

 

How you put yourself across to your potentail customer can also have an effect. So many tradesmen come across as patranising and know it all.

 

I let the customer tell you they want their tree cutting off just above the main stem to allow more light in and then explain to them gently what problems are associated with doing that and have they thought of....

 

You can win so many jobs this way despite being slightly more expensive than "Dave the drystone waller, come fencer, come flagger, come landscaper, come tree lopper, come grass mower, come part time fireman.

 

Spot on, all of it!

 

Its amazing how much such as chippers cost to run.

 

Your pricing and customer relations are exactly how i try to make mine

[Mac McLennan]

All of your points are very good........But what do you ALLall do when after saying this.....

 

I let the customer tell you they want their tree cutting off just above the main stem to allow more light in and then explain to them gently what problems are associated with doing that and have they thought of....

 

they say ............I hear what your saying but we would like it TOPPED anyway.

 

Me personally:

 

I would never have done the work at all until recently. BUT....If it is in a back garden outta site, I now do the work.

 

WHY? Because if I don't - my competetors (who are also very good tree surgeons) will. And at the end of the day blokes need paying.

 

And I'll bet you that 50% of the trees that we all work on, do not really need the work.

 

Sorry for going of on a tangent .....

[Zenfordinner]

All of your points are very good........But what do you ALLall do when after saying this.....

 

I let the customer tell you they want their tree cutting off just above the main stem to allow more light in and then explain to them gently what problems are associated with doing that and have they thought of....

 

they say ............I hear what your saying but we would like it TOPPED anyway.

 

Me personally:

 

I would never have done the work at all until recently. BUT....If it is in a back garden outta site, I now do the work.

 

WHY? Because if I don't - my competetors (who are also very good tree surgeons) will. And at the end of the day blokes need paying.

 

And I'll bet you that 50% of the trees that we all work on, do not really need the work.

 

Sorry for going of on a tangent .....

 

I opine that a balance has to be struck regarding the type of work one does. I am a bit of a purist at heart and would prefer to see only necessary work done, but as pointed out, a firm could go bust.

 

(also am inclined to removing a tree altogether rather than trying to keep a large tree small through regular hard core reductions, for example; and replacing it with a species suitable for the size and nature of the area in which it is to grow, where at most a bit of maintenance pruning is sufficient)

 

I think it is bad for morale if tree people are doing work that goes against the grain. We have refused work that would break our hearts, although we choose carefully, such as if someone had their tree mullered years ago and wants a repeat (mainly pollard style of things), and the regrowth permits a more creative reduction/thinning that will leave the tree with a somewhat decent crown, we advise the client accordingly. If they insist, we generally will do the work.

 

Change comes slowly, more often than not, so patience with elevating peoples awareness of trees (biology/pathology) may prevail! Meaning that if tree people keep trying to educate laypeople, gradually people may shift to making better decsions regarding their trees.

 

Despite refusing work, or advising clients that what they think needs doing can actually result in what they are afraid of, or that it really is not necessary and the tree is best left alone, or recommending work that will give them what they want (often more light) without compromising the trees aesthetics or structural integrity, we have managed to increase both our client base and turnover. Last year, we were booked a month in advance, at a minimum, for the whole year, with perhaps a week in total in down time (after New Year, and 2 day drought during holiday season).

 

Often, laypeople have never considered that a tree is a living organism that responds to its environment, yet alone will endeavour to recoup the energy lost through removal of material, or the energy required by the tree to seal wounds and survive human impact. Upon finding out, many a person lookes upon their tree(s) differently, and, alas, many a person does not give a toss, such as it is.

(perhaps they should be charged what we refer to as 'wanker tax')

 

One positive thing that may come with a slow down in the economy: many a person will not easily part with their cash to have superfluous work done to their trees!