pruning and cabling a mature maple

[MattyF]

In all fairness I don't have a problem with invasive bracinging the idea of drilling a hole through living tissue is horrifying to some and I have only installed cobra for the last 8 years but I have worked on plenty of tree's that have and seen it work perfectly on ones we did install it on and it has done a far better job and far more IMO trustworthy job! But.... Tree's that are sick and don't seem to have much vitality like that one that already had huge problems with compartmentalising decay I have seem them just pull bolts in months .....mostly oaks and chestnuts though ,trees high in tannin levels but also sick tree's that just can't cope compartmentalising around wounds,Secondly I'm not sure what was going on but i would of left far more slack on an off leaf tree...

[dadio]

Rob,

I was not referring to you in any of the above statements, so no need to take things personally. As far as the Cobra, I'll have to get some and learn how to use it.. I've never had a problem with the steel and just use it because I AM familiar with it. That's an area that I could use some improvement in. That said, I have only ever seen 1 cobra or other non-steel cable (support system) in all my years and it was installed poorly and needlessly.. So no one to my knowledge around here uses the cobra.. Might be cool to use.

 

can it be installed mid-stem, or does it need to be installed in a branch union? Would you have gone with the larger stem with the decay, or used the same one I did?? ANy other thoughts,.. problems ... concerns... adjustments? UV degradation.. squirrel chewing etc..

[mistahbenn]

Daniel, why are you here? Haven't you learned from the other forums?

[gibbon]

There are still un answeted questions for me here, perhaps because you haven't answered them for me.

 

1. Would you have have made all of your pruning cuts the same way if you had the ability to work from rope and harness, just for the areas not easily accessible with the truck?

 

2. Why did you not inspect the branch union before you decided to brace?

 

3. Why did you not inspect the branch union before deciding how much pruning was required?

 

4. Who do you mean when you refer to people who do not understand this level of pruning? It's ok to name names, infact it might be better if you did rather than to imply that anyone who disagrees with you is simply to thick to understand the advanced level to which your working.

[dadio]

I had better, (or at least easier to get better) positioning for making those cuts on the branch tips than could have been had from rope and saddle. When pruning trees with no central leaders it can be very difficult to reach branch tips at all, and certainly would make pruning many trees in this way, impractical. I put less importance on good targets, when working branch tips.. though I pay a lot of attention when the cuts are on the main stem.

 

Its funny how many arbs that regularly butcher trees, by removing all the lower limbs, (and call it elevating or pruning for clearance) and making large cuts on the main stem, (cuts that will never compartmentalize and eventually destabilize the tree, creating a dangerous hazard or expensive removal) get all righteous when it comes to stubs.. When their practices are so harmful and they are so ignorant about it... Yet they go on and on and on like religious fanatics about stubs... Stubs get a bad wrap IMO.. far better to leave a stub, than to violate the branch protection zone... Which I've seen happen over and over again.....

 

 

Now this is not referring to any of you... I can only speak about the work and workers here in the US.. but I do question with skepticism anyone that thinks they hit the perfect target cut 99.99% of the time.... And anyone that thinks they can reach the branch tips better from a r&s than from a mewp..

 

The decision to cable was made during the consultation with the client, and based in part on the species of tree and the size, degree of lean of the two co-doms and knowing what was under that ivy without having to see it.. I was going to need to be up there anyway to remove the large dry lead, so installing a cable was fairly easy compared to removing the ivy. The customer was made aware of the situation and wanted the cable..

 

As far as pruning goes, I wasn't concerned about the structure of the branch union as a reason to prune, especially because the cable was going in.I was only concerned about the structural integrity of the limbs themselves, as they had problems with decay and vertical cracks, which were apparent from the ground.

 

Lastly , I do not pay much attention to names, nor wish to single anyone out.. But it happens all the time. One good example is the depth of the notch.. here comes some 22 year old kid criticizing my notch because it is not 1/3 depth, when there is a very good reason I cut it the way I did, and the the hinge is perfectly strong enough to do its job without fail... BUT people get all bent out of shape because it wasn't done the way they were taught. They love their rules and just don't don't understand the level of work that has transcended the rules...

[dadio]

talked to another tree guy, that runs the most first class operation in the area, and one of the best in the states, or who knows maybe even the world.. Their top climber has come in 6th at the ITCC twice and 8th once..

 

He said that they looked into cobra, but do not use it because the steel has a greater and more reliable life span, when installed properly.. He also has not found the decay associated with thru bolts to be a concern.. That said, I have found the same thing. The only issue is if the only stem to cable to has an existing column of decay, then its seems that popping a hole right thru the good wood is going to do more harm than good.. That is a very rare occurrence though around here.

 

I do wonder why cobra never really got any traction in this market.. with the price of steel going up, it might be more cost effective now.. I never did like the argument that its easy for one man to do by himself.. Most cables are best set with two climbers around here. One climber tends to want to set the cable where he came make the swing, which is almost always far below where the cable should be.. I wonder about the differences in tree species geographically. Could that have something to do with it.. or are we just having a hard time adapting new technologies.. Some of the best climbers in the work come from the east coast USA, so I doubt that's it, but who knows for sure?

[Taupotreeman]

Dadio, I don't want to get into the aspects of the pruning, cabling etc or even the arguing back and forth, however, I did pick up on your comment about the depth of the notch or face cut. I'm finding more and more young guys in the industry are telling me that a notch should be one third of the tree diameter yet I was always taught to use only one fifth to one quarter in order to leave plenty of wood at the rear to play with. Just curious as to the teachings over there in the US and what the rule of thumb is?

[dadio]

The question is why????

 

Why should a notch be 1/3, 1/4, 1/5 or whatever..

 

Most arbs are only going by their training without really understanding the reasons behind it.

 

The rules here in the US used to be 1/3, but that got changed to a depth needed to make the notch 80% of the width of the diameter at the cut. I've never heard if that is the front, back or middle of the notch, as that can make quite a difference. 80% is often far less than 1/3 diameter.

 

Either way though, it is just a rule and is only needed for people that don't understand the why... Good for training newbies, and it is astounding to me that so many in our industry are so strongly attached to being "right" about this and many other procedures, when so few really understand what is going on.

[dadio]

excuse me.. I meant to say "hinge" instead of "notch" in the above post... Don't know why I can't edit my own posts .. apparently there is a 10 minute time limit on editing..